Roughness and noise at low throttle openings

[Ride365]

20 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I strongly disagree

Even in today's market.

If you know what you're doing You can have a very slick and cost effective rat bike

Even as near back in 2017 it was better but when it's your only means of transportation except on bad winter days, it is The Way.

You'd think in 1972 it was even cheaper but our wages made it harder, as they couldn't produce enough to lessen demand and lower prices.

I have yet to meet a single rider/owner that having a motorcycle for them has been cost effective in any way shape or form......but I know some exist, in particular depending on where you live.

[2and3cylinders]

https://groups.google.com/g/chivinmoto

 

Well, you haven't met me in my youth. And even in the 80s and 90s, we got around cheap.

This club has been around a long time and I rode with them. And they still do it on the cheap. The only thing that's escalated is the price of parts oil and gas.

San Francisco also has similar clubs. And they used to do the Sunday morning. Ride up across the Golden Gate bridge in the Marin county.

Would take route 1 app 2 point reyes and sometimes further and then East into the wine country and Id lead. Cause I didn't drink and thyd stop at the tasting rooms at the wineries.

Would lose a guy a season over the cliff down into the rocks. And would keep going because we knew they were dead. Though. Sometimes somebody would stick around for the CHP.

I think seattle and spokane washington have clubs like that.

I think Austin also has vintage clubs again. They're rat bikes, but they run good, and they're a lot of fun.

[dazzler24]

On 8/11/2023 at 11:07 PM, 2and3cylinders said:

My question is if it can occur at only 35k km (21k mi), how soon can it re-occur after replacement???

Will a billet basket preclude or significantly extend the runtime, or is it the quality of the damper doughnuts?

If I was in better shape and had more time, I could do 20k miles in a season and a half.

This issue could then get very tiresome and costly to stay on top of.

And this is true I guess and only time will tell.  If it's a shorter, rather than longer term recurring issue then there will be more and more people affected and so might create the need for a suitable repair kit that is over and above the current offerings of drill and replace with bolts which is a bit of a hack technique IMHO.

Alternatively, some enterprising engineering types with all the right shop gear might be able to offer a mail in service where the job could be done professionally.  i.e. where the rivets are replaced like for like so that the basket is just like new again without any countersinking or grinding of bolt heads that seems to be the current home repair technique.

As mentioned.... only time will tell.

[dazzler24]

On 8/12/2023 at 2:03 AM, 2and3cylinders said:

I can't remember the name of our super high mileage guy. I don't envy him though. Hes in great shape, for his age.

Bet he has the original basket 

I think you're referring to this olddawg post and yes, it appears he still has the original clutch - at least at the time of that post!

[dazzler24]

On 8/10/2023 at 7:35 PM, dazzler24 said:

After @Wintersdark's excellent appraisal of the issue and his glowing 'after' results I had no alternative ( OK, I did really 😜) but to bite the bullet and have now ordered all the 'bits' from Webike Japan.

Do I have the 'GRONK' as described? After some careful riding analysis based on the earlier data, I believe that I do have the early symptoms.

Honest analysis:-

Is it a real problem for me? No - not really! The bike rides fine!

Could I live with it? - Of course I could!

Do I want to live with it?

Now, that's the real question.  For the OCD in me - the answer is if it can be better or improved then NO.

What tipped it for me in the end was the currently favourable exchange rate with the Japanese Yen.

The bits have shipped on a slow boat from Japan (much cheaper and I'm in no hurry) so I will either do the job at my next oil change or will at least check the slop in the rubber dampers then and if within specs I will at least have the parts for when it inevitably becomes a problem down the track.

Replying to/updating my earlier post above.....

After ordering my parts from Webike Japan on 10th August, they arrived today - 25th September.  So around 45/46 days on the boat and through customs to my door.  I'm happy with that timeframe given that they say to allow for up to three months for the surface option delivery and I was in no hurry anyway.

I have to say that everything was packaged extremely well with loads of air filled padding.  My only 'complaint', and it was my own stupid fault, was that only one of the rubber cushions of three that go under the springs of the slipper clutch assembly, was in the package!  The part I'm referring to is 1TD-16178-00-ABSORBER 3  which in my defence comes as a 3 part kit when I checked my local Yamaha online parts webtool at the time of ordering. i.e. you can only order all three or none when you order 'one' of that part.  The '3' on the end of the part number didn't help with my logic at the time either.  The Webike site allows you to order them individually, it would seem, and the cost reflects that - great in hindsight of course!  Anyway, I'll just have to order the kit locally and then have a spare one that I'll never use - dooh!

So, all in all I've now got the following ready for install when the time comes: -

• 1 x Primary Driven Gear Comp B7N-16150-00-00
• 1 x Nut 90179-20010-00
• 1 x Absorber 1TD-16178-00-00 - (need three in total as described above)
• 1 x GASKET, CRANKCASE COVER 2 1RC-15461-00-00

[2and3cylinders]

D-Man

I maybe never saw a close-up pic of your engine, and just noticed you have protective case covers as well as the Giving case guards.  Did you install the former before the latter?

As the former are redundant, wouldn't the engine run a bit cooler without them?

I still have to reply to your PM, sorry.

[dazzler24]

5 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

D-Man

I maybe never saw a close-up pic of your engine, and just noticed you have protective case covers as well as the Giving case guards.  Did you install the former before the latter?

As the former are redundant, wouldn't the engine run a bit cooler without them?

I still have to reply to your PM, sorry.

2 plus 3,  To answer your questions:-

"Did you install the former before the latter?" - Yes I did. 

"As the former are redundant, wouldn't the engine run a bit cooler without them?" - Probably 🤔  But I'm getting coolant temps that are nominal so haven't bothered is the short answer.   Could have taken them off but I have a very small amount of rash on one of the OEM covers from some time ago when I was practicing slow turns and snuffed it!  They are now really there to hide my shame.🙂

[Wintersdark]

I'll add, as a "couple months in update" - my Tracer is still nice and tight, totally GRONK free.  Never a moment of regret in swapping clutch baskets.

[2and3cylinders]

2 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

I'll add, as a "couple months in update" - my Tracer is still nice and tight, totally GRONK free.  Never a moment of regret in swapping clutch baskets.

Likely due to CTE I can't tell or remember to check if my 60k+ fastest red 15 has gronk or not.

I know it's noisy and quiets down some when the clutch lever is pulled but will either condition actually impair performance?!

I have found basically since new and again after I installed the 16 XSR S/A clutch kit from PartShark probably at less than 20k miles that best clutch activation is found when lever freeplay is 2~3 mm at the gap (not at the end of the lever where it's difficult to measure accurately) with the 2nd gen cable.

Now I don't pop wheelies but do speed up shift without the clutch and can't hear clutch noise while riding. 

So I guess the best analogies would be if a bear deficates in the woods is there an odor and will the nearby rotted tree falling down make a noise, given the bear is deaf and has survived to date with a compromised olfactory sense; and obviously with no other cognizant life form within ear and noise shot?

[Wintersdark]

There's no performance gain, and Yamaha insists that the old clutch isn't going to fail due to GRONK, it's just some play that ends up there.

 

So, fixing it is purely "cosmetic" if you will - if you're not sure if you have it or not, don't have a problem with it... *shrugs* don't bother.  I mean, my old basket is still on my desk, it looks totally fine.  It has play between basket and gear, but there's no visible *damage*.  It's just the the rubber bumpers inside degrade and shrink causing that play.  It won't break, though.

In your case, though, I'd do it to get the slipper clutch at the same time, because slipper clutches are amazing.  But that's just me

[RD52]

Just want to say thanks to everyone in this thread, especially @bwringer 

My "new to me" 2020 definitely has the gronk. Figured it was the clutch, but nice to see the confirmation and all the p/n info, how-to discussions and results. 

Will be doing the replacement this winter.

Edited September 28, 2023 by RD52

[Ride365]

1 hour ago, RD52 said:

Just want to say thanks to everyone in this thread, especially @bwringer 

My "new to me" 2020 definitely has the gronk. Figured it was the clutch, but nice to see the confirmation and all the p/n info, how-to discussions and results. 

Will be doing the replacement this winter.

I still have no discernable noise on my 20 with almost 16k miles, maybe I'm in the clear?

[RD52]

2 hours ago, Ride365 said:

I still have no discernable noise on my 20 with almost 16k miles, maybe I'm in the clear?

Mine has 16k also, so not sure what the difference is. Manufacturing tolerances, riding style, phase of the moon when assembled... hard to know. 

[Wintersdark]

3 hours ago, Ride365 said:

I still have no discernable noise on my 20 with almost 16k miles, maybe I'm in the clear?

The original basket was replaced either in 2020 or 2021; possibly even midway through 2020 model production.  The new basket (which is what you're getting if you replace the existing one) is gronk-free.

So, maybe you're just lucky, maybe you've got one of the updated baskets already.  

Gronk is VERY evident under deceleration, and low speed/low throttle/low rpm riding.  If you don't know if you have it, you almost certainly don't (or at least, it doesn't matter because it doesn't bother you). 

It does take some time to develop, however.  In my experience and from what I've read researching it in MT09 circles, it definitely does before 16k miles however.  It actually happens pretty fast, starting inside around 8000 miles IIRC.

[2and3cylinders]

On 9/26/2023 at 11:08 PM, Wintersdark said:

There's no performance gain, and Yamaha insists that the old clutch isn't going to fail due to GRONK, it's just some play that ends up there.

 

So, fixing it is purely "cosmetic" if you will - if you're not sure if you have it or not, don't have a problem with it... *shrugs* don't bother.  I mean, my old basket is still on my desk, it looks totally fine.  It has play between basket and gear, but there's no visible *damage*.  It's just the the rubber bumpers inside degrade and shrink causing that play.  It won't break, though.

In your case, though, I'd do it to get the slipper clutch at the same time, because slipper clutches are amazing.  But that's just me

I said, I got the 16 XSR S/A 40k+ miles ago...

If I can ride this weekend I listen for it, or try to remember to.  My bad hip distracts me though within a few miles.

Can you say pain?  Ecstasy & the Agony is more like it.

I realized 2 rides ago I was unconsciously doing Lamaze breathing to keep going.

I must have been a great Lamaze coach because our last rodent* finally decided to come out in 93.

*Rodent aka Rugrat; R1 ~ R3