Roughness and noise at low throttle openings

[dazzler24]

'tis the season for de-gronking.

Finally got around to replacing the Primary driven gear to address my perceived gronk today as well as doing an oil and filter change.

I was never 100% sure that I had it (gronk) until I dropped off the clutch housing and with the bike in 6th gear, pushed and pulled the rear wheel and observed the slight play and 'click' that many report.  It can be seen at around 2:52 in this excellent video which works through the issue.

EDIT:- While I simply followed the video mentioned above that steps through the process, I opted to not remove the oil pump cog because you can just coax the bearing and sleeve out of the clutch hub gear while the chain is still attached and that will then drop down enough to release the chain from that bottom cog.  Installation is simply the reverse.

I had a really tough time getting the staked nut off as I used red loctite last time when I did the slipper clutch update.  So this time I used the blue stuff.

Performing the same 6th gear trick as above now shows zero movement and no click.

Has it made a difference?  I won't know until tomorrow or later as rain is forecast again. 🙄

While in there, I checked my plates, complete clutch pack and clutch springs tolerances and all were well within spec (as expected).

The installation included a new 2nd generation primary gear, new boss nut, slipper clutch rubbers and new gasket.

 

Blue this time!

Edited April 20 by dazzler24
no need to remove oil pump cog advisory

[dazzler24]

Ok for me it's official.  Fixing the gronk is a night and day experience which surprised me a little by the amount of the difference.

As many others have attested to before me, the bike feels tight and new again.  Who would have thought that a tiny bit of movement between the clutch basket cogs would make such a huge difference in the rideability/feel of the bike.

Anyway, without labouring the point more than necessary, I say to anyone who's thinking about it is - "NIKE" - just do it!

[2and3cylinders]

Cute trick I presume taking out? the left center stand bolt and inserting 2? fender washers to create a reaction stop for the clutch holding tool. Am I correct in exactly what you did?

Also good idea replacing the s/a damper rubbers.

So after spending $135 on a new battery,  how do I minimize SWMBO blowing a heart valve for another $350 for a clutch basket???

BTW, the original 8+ year old OEM battery did test out bad.

 

[dazzler24]

2 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

Cute trick I presume taking out? the left center stand bolt and inserting 2? fender washers to create a reaction stop for the clutch holding tool. Am I correct in exactly what you did?

Also good idea replacing the s/a damper rubbers.

So after spending $135 on a new battery,  how do I minimize SWMBO blowing a heart valve for another $350 for a clutch basket???

BTW, the original 8+ year old OEM battery did test out bad.

Ha! There's no getting anything past you 2and3.  Of all the people on this forum, it was you who I thought would ask/comment about that and you haven't disappointed. 👍

That's pretty much exactly what I did to support the clutch holding tool as....

1. I don't have enough hands and

2. that nut was on tiiiight!!

Actually, I used a longer bolt for more support in the frame and arranged the spacers and a few more washers to ensure it was lined up properly with the clutch basket.

I even took a photo at the time to show what I did in anticipation of 'someone', (AKA 2and3cylinders), asking. 🙂

I know you have an enquiring mind. 😀

-------------

SWMBO's heart valve trumps you on justifying a new clutch basket I'm afraid.

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Good to know that you've confirmed it was the old battery that was the culprit.

------------

[bwringer]

@dazzler24, where/how did you get that lovely clutch holding tool? Got a link? 

I'm also generally not clear on why/how you ordered from Webike rather than a US parts source like Partshark. Can you explain that a bit more? Got a list and/or links?

Congrats on your newfound gronklessness!

[fr8dog]

My 2016 is ridiculously noisy at idle and there is a "gronk" at low speed take off. Noise quiets down when clutch lever pulled, but there is still some rattling. What does cam chain rattling sound like? Is some noise normal?

So I guess I'm gonna join the party on this fix. I have to buy the basket. Repairing from scratch may be above my tech abilities.

I have 70k miles on the bike. I realize I can measure the plates to see if they're in spec. 

Would you all just buy the basket and clutch kit and be done with it? Also need to get that fancy tool @dazzler24used.

Dan

 

[dazzler24]

On 4/20/2024 at 12:53 AM, bwringer said:

@dazzler24, where/how did you get that lovely clutch holding tool? Got a link? 

I'm also generally not clear on why/how you ordered from Webike rather than a US parts source like Partshark. Can you explain that a bit more? Got a list and/or links?

Congrats on your newfound gronklessness!

I bought that tool (EBC) a ways back when I did the slipper update. Think I bought it from one of the usual online giants at the time but here is a link that may kick you off on a local hunt in the US for yourself.

I'm from Oz so buying from Japan or the US can be similar cost wise to get stuff here.  I know Webike had an option to ship, literally via a ship, to me here at the time which significantly reduced to overall cost which can be prohibitive at times when buying from the US.  Here's my post on the purchase.  Having said that, I bought my slipper kit from Partshark back in 2019 so do share the love around. 🙂

 

[dazzler24]

6 hours ago, fr8dog said:

My 2016 is ridiculously noisy at idle and there is a "gronk" at low speed take off. Noise quiets down when clutch lever pulled, but there is still some rattling. What does cam chain rattling sound like? Is some noise normal?

So I guess I'm gonna join the party on this fix. I have to buy the basket. Repairing from scratch may be above my tech abilities.

I have 70k miles on the bike. I realize I can measure the plates to see if they're in spec. 

Would you all just buy the basket and clutch kit and be done with it? Also need to get that fancy tool @dazzler24used.

Dan

 

FWIW - If I had the prerequisite tools I would have attempted the repair path rather than the expensive alternative.

To do a decent job I believe you'd need a drill press and a few of the other tools already mentioned in other posts to do this properly - most of which I don't have.

Have you considered taking it to a machine shop armed with all of the great info on what is required from posts in the forum?  I might even do that with my 'spare' unit a little later on to either keep it as a spare or sell to recoup some of the cost of buying the new unit.

Anyway, my 2 cents worth.

[Ride365]

I'd be buying the entire basket and whatever else is needed for replace/swap and button back up. 

[2and3cylinders]

14 hours ago, bwringer said:

@dazzler24, where/how did you get that lovely clutch holding tool? Got a link? 

I'm also generally not clear on why/how you ordered from Webike rather than a US parts source like Partshark. Can you explain that a bit more? Got a list and/or links?

Congrats on your newfound gronklessness!

You can but the EBC clutch holder tool here.  I have one for the FJ and VTR. You can make your own easily by just welding a suitable diameter steel rod to the edge of a steel drive plate or two sandwiched and tacked circumferentially together so the rod is located between the basket "flutes".

It's an age old DIY thing even pro race mechanics used (still) to do...

[2and3cylinders]

5 hours ago, dazzler24 said:

FWIW - If I had the prerequisite tools I would have attempted the repair path rather than the expensive alternative.

To do a decent job I believe you'd need a drill press and a few of the other tools already mentioned in other posts to do this properly - most of which I don't have.

Have you considered taking it to a machine shop armed with all of the great info on what is required from posts in the forum?  I might even do that with my 'spare' unit a little later on to either keep it as a spare or sell to recoup some of the cost of buying the new unit.

Anyway, my 2 cents worth.

I guess I'll cut you slack and not say I'm flabbergasted you don't have at least an inexpensive workbench top drill press. Harbor Frieght Tools sold some nice Taiwanese made machine tools in the 80s, they've been Chicom made since.

I presume this means you also  don't have a lathe, table mill, bandsaw, table belt sander, or stick, MIG and TIG welder.

I thought all you down and down down under types out of shear necessity all just made your own.

"Fastest Indian" mode and all that.😆

[2and3cylinders]

A question for the peanut gallery:

When verifying I had the gronk, which until now I had refused to accept the reality it could happen to MY fastest red 15, I noted when (albeit not fully warmed up), that when I initiated pulling the clutch lever, that I heard and felt a "rattlingly  or gravely feel and sound from the clutch. When I pulled the lever past the friction zone and then fully in, it seemed this death rattle sound and feel diminished significantly. 

It almost feels like a failed throw-out bearing, or clutch basket hub bearing has an issue (or loose hub nut).  Is this possible, or is this part and parcel to the whole feel the gronk love experience???

Inquiring minds need to know...

[dazzler24]

29 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I guess I'll cut you slack and not say I'm flabbergasted you don't have at least an inexpensive workbench top drill press. Harbor Frieght Tools sold some nice Taiwanese made machine tools in the 80s, they've been Chicom made since.

I presume this means you also  don't have a lathe, table mill, bandsaw, table belt sander, or stick, MIG and TIG welder.

I thought all you down and down down under types out of shear necessity all just made your own.

"Fastest Indian" mode and all that.😆

Ha!  I've got a little MIG out of that list but that's it, other than a lot of hand tools.

And I have considered getting a 'cheap' drill press if that counts. 😁

[2and3cylinders]

No other comments regarding the vibration and noise.I get with my clutch now.Thanks

[skipperT]

9 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

A question for the peanut gallery:

When verifying I had the gronk, which until now I had refused to accept the reality it could happen to MY fastest red 15, I noted when (albeit not fully warmed up), that when I initiated pulling the clutch lever, that I heard and felt a "rattlingly  or gravely feel and sound from the clutch. When I pulled the lever past the friction zone and then fully in, it seemed this death rattle sound and feel diminished significantly. 

It almost feels like a failed throw-out bearing, or clutch basket hub bearing has an issue (or loose hub nut).  Is this possible, or is this part and parcel to the whole feel the gronk love experience???

Inquiring minds need to know...

I personally think that:

-the “gronk” is one type of noise/feeling from the drivetrain, and

-the clutch noise heard when engine is idling and clutch lever is pulled/released 

… are 2 entirely different things, IMH(P)O. I will confirm this after doing my own repair, which is out waiting for me to get to it. But regarding your question @2and3cylinders, some noise is typical when clutch is used at idle and not in gear, AND this sound is even different for those of us (you and me, I believe) who have converted to a slipper clutch. 

-S