Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted January 25, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted January 25, 2017 Get the biggest shim kit in the most range of sizes you can get, it'll help with getting the clearances exactly where you want them. As with your other question if you have to ask if the cam chain needs loosening it is really Not a job you should learn on. They are just a little different to a conventional jap motor to do shims on, either way a manual is 100% a must. No offence intended by the way.No offence taken. However, I've been wrenching on motorbikes, cars and airplanes since about 1970, and have adjusted valves on many types and makes of engines, as well as rebuilt and restored complete bikes (including racing) and airplanes. I was responding to a comment regarding a special tool that was utilized that I presumed (possibly incorrectly) obviated the need to remove the CCT. I took it that this tool permitted backing off the CCT but it was stated it would not hold the spring back if you did not keep the tools hex nut from rotating, and thus it would maintain pressure on the "Chain Damper Assy". I have the FSM and reviewed the valve lash check / adjust steps briefly and understand the procedure (ref. pg.s 3-5 ~ 3-8 of the FSM [(1st Ed. 09/2014 for FJ09F & FC]. It's quaint the FSM calls the valve shims "pads". I'm familiar with CCT special tools. For example, Honda actually provides a template with dimensions for a simple flat, stepped T shaped tool that permits winding back the CCT spring and locking it back so the CCT assy does not need to be removed. On page 5-11 of the FSM, Step 3 calls for removing the CCT without detensioning its spring. Task 9 a ~ h on pages 5-16 & 5-18 describe how to tension the CCT and it seems the special tool ("hexagon wrench PN 1RC-12228-00, which I have not called a dealership to find out if it is available) does somehow hold the spring tensioned to enable CCT installation, and then per step 9f it is rotated clockwise "by hand until the timing chain tensioner rod touches the timing chain guide (sic, Chain Damper Assy 1RC-12250-01-00), and then tighten 1/4 turn by tool." The parts diagram for some reason it does not depict or identify the components as described and shown in the FSM. So can this tool obviate the need to remove the CCT because it can detension the spring and then retension it? Apparently what you are saying is the chain must be loose in order to remove the cams and the CCT removed to facilitate this. No? http://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/oemparts/a/yam/546a26caf87002164cb28013/camshaft-chain BTW, I know if the CCT is removed it may not be possible to reuse its gasket but is not the valve cover ("cylinder head") gasket made of rubber, and thus it can be reused if it is not damaged rather than be replaced as per the FSM? I also have not been able to find AM valve shims ("pads" LOL) in increments of less than .05 mm. Has anyone? I understand Honda shims can be had in .025 mm increments cheaper than the Yamaha pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggy Nate Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Hi mate, correct, the tool I made negates the need to remove the tensioner thus no need to worry about the cct gasket. And yes I reused the cam cover gasket no worries as it was on back order when I checked my valves, it is so cheap though I would have just replaced it anyways. And yes I have about twenty of those t pieces used to lock Honda/Kawasaki and some Yamaha and Suzuki tensioners. They can be a life saver sometimes. Any other questions please ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggy Nate Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 On the shims, we have a company here in Australia that manufactures shims for us in any sizes we want, not too cheap but they are far better quality than some other aftermarket ones. Not sure how the cct tool does it but when it is inserted into the hex hole after the blanking bolts is removed it locks the tensioner in what ever position you leave it. It only springs out when the Allen screw tool is removed. Even still the fsm as you said required another 1/4 turn of tension. It is one of those things that you will sus out instantly when doing it but takes too long to explain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted January 25, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted January 25, 2017 On the shims, we have a company here in Australia that manufactures shims for us in any sizes we want, not too cheap but they are far better quality than some other aftermarket ones. Not sure how the cct tool does it but when it is inserted into the hex hole after the blanking bolts is removed it locks the tensioner in what ever position you leave it. It only springs out when the Allen screw tool is removed. Even still the fsm as you said required another 1/4 turn of tension. It is one of those things that you will sus out instantly when doing it but takes too long to explain! Mucho Gracias Vduboy! I'll make a tool per your description. Did you epoxy the hex shank into the hex nut? When the generator rotor & case a/b timing marks line up, is Cyl #1 at 125 degrees BTDC? I know the FSM talks about that as well as the 240 degree valve time phase delta between cylinders. The FSM did state that on installation the punch mark in the shank of each cam should face up. Is the company down under that makes the shims for you Precision Shims Australia? http://www.precisionshims.com.au/ I emailed Chris there and asked on 7.48 x .020 mm shim kit pricing but do you know offhand their approximate price for a 1.20 ~ 3.50 kit runs? I have checked with APE, Pro-X/Wiseco, K&L, AHL and Hot Cams and they all only have shims in .050 mm increments. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggy Nate Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 On the shims, we have a company here in Australia that manufactures shims for us in any sizes we want, not too cheap but they are far better quality than some other aftermarket ones. Not sure how the cct tool does it but when it is inserted into the hex hole after the blanking bolts is removed it locks the tensioner in what ever position you leave it. It only springs out when the Allen screw tool is removed. Even still the fsm as you said required another 1/4 turn of tension. It is one of those things that you will sus out instantly when doing it but takes too long to explain! Mucho Gracias Vduboy! I'll make a tool per your description. Did you epoxy the hex shank into the hex nut? When the generator rotor & case a/b timing marks line up, is Cyl #1 at 125 degrees BTDC? I know the FSM talks about that as well as the 240 degree valve time phase delta between cylinders. The FSM did state that on installation the punch mark in the shank of each cam should face up. Is the company down under that makes the shims for you Precision Shims Australia? http://www.precisionshims.com.au/ I emailed Chris there and asked on 7.48 x .020 mm shim kit pricing but do you know offhand their approximate price for a 1.20 ~ 3.50 kit runs? I have checked with APE, Pro-X/Wiseco, K&L, AHL and Hot Cams and they all only have shims in .050 mm increments. Thanks No I didn't epoxy the hex, I just made it a press fit, not a lot of torque on it anyway, yes the 125 degrees BTDC is the magic mark to pull the cams, they are mostly unloaded at that point. (easier to get the cam caps on etc.) And yes the punch marks (oil holes) on the cam are what you align, ignore the lines on the cam sprockets. Yes precision shims is the company. No idea on the cost unfortunately, all I know is the boss sheds a few tears everytime I stock up the workshop on the 12+ sizes of shims we have to carry!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilanr1 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Hi , can anyone here share a video with the procedure of how to adjust the valves ?. THANKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Rocky mountain ATV has Pro-X valve shims. Pro-X are excellent quality and range in size 1.20 mm to 3.50 mm in .025 mm increments. Individual shims are 1.99: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/2838/26634/Pro-X-Valve-Shim?v=11963 The kits are here: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/2838/24277/Pro-X-Valve-Shim-Kit?v=11963 One kit has the standard .05 mm increments and the other has the .025 increments. Good stuff. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted January 26, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted January 26, 2017 Rocky mountain ATV has Pro-X valve shims. Pro-X are excellent quality and range in size 1.20 mm to 3.50 mm in .025 mm increments. Individual shims are 1.99: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/2838/26634/Pro-X-Valve-Shim?v=11963 The kits are here: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/2838/24277/Pro-X-Valve-Shim-Kit?v=11963 One kit has the standard .05 mm increments and the other has the .025 increments. Good stuff. john I called Pro-x / Wisconsin owned by same parent company and both sell the same kit PN. I was told and it states on their websites that current Sims / kits only come in .050 mm increments. Below is the reply I received from Chris at Precision Shim; current usd vs Asd exchange rate is .754085. The kit in the .02 inc = 101 sizes x 3 each size = 303 pieces x $3.00 each = $909.00 australian The kit in the .05 inc = 41 sizes x 3 each size = 123 pieces x $3.00 each = $369.00 australian The postage would be about $50.00 dollars 3 or 4 days away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted January 26, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted January 26, 2017 Wisco not Wisconsin! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Here in the U.S., the kits are $89.96 each and replacement shims are $1.99. I use the Pro-X shims on lots of motocross engines with great results. I have had poor results with Hot Cams shims. It's very easy to differentiate between the 2 brands because the etched sizes on the shim are completely different. Good luck in Australia. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted January 28, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted January 28, 2017 Rocky mountain ATV has Pro-X valve shims. Pro-X are excellent quality and range in size 1.20 mm to 3.50 mm in .025 mm increments. Individual shims are 1.99: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/2838/26634/Pro-X-Valve-Shim?v=11963 The kits are here: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/2838/24277/Pro-X-Valve-Shim-Kit?v=11963 One kit has the standard .05 mm increments and the other has the .025 increments. Good stuff.john Yesterday I spoke again to Wisco/Pro-X (Robert 440-951-6600 in Mentor, OH) and clarified the following regarding their 7.48 mm shim kits: Wisco / Pro-X PN 29.VSK748: 1.20 ~ 3.50 MM in .050 MM INCREMENTS - 46 SIZES x 3 EA EA. SIZE ENDS IN X.00 OR X.50 MM Pro-X PN 29.VSK748-2: 1.225 ~ 3.475 MM in .025 MM INCREMENTS - 46 SIZES x 3 EA EA. SIZE ENDS IN X.25 or X.475 MM So to have every size in .25 increments one must have both sets at about $90 ea set https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/2838/24277/Pro-X-Valve-Shim-Kit?v=11963&PID=6160227&ref=cj What to do? Pro-X shims supposedly are private labeled for them by the OEM manufacturers I believe in Taiwan or Japan (doubtful on the latter) Hot Cams PN HCSHIM01: 1.20 ~ 3.50 MM in .050 MM INCREMENTS - 46 SIZES x 3 EA $58 or less are also are made in Taiwan and possibly some in China https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/922/10839/Hot-Cams-Valve-Shim-Kit?3&v=5959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Rocky mountain ATV has Pro-X valve shims. Pro-X are excellent quality and range in size 1.20 mm to 3.50 mm in .025 mm increments. Individual shims are 1.99: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/2838/26634/Pro-X-Valve-Shim?v=11963 The kits are here: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/2838/24277/Pro-X-Valve-Shim-Kit?v=11963 One kit has the standard .05 mm increments and the other has the .025 increments. Good stuff. john Yesterday I spoke again to Wisco/Pro-X (Robert 440-951-6600 in Mentor, OH) and clarified the following regarding their 7.48 mm shim kits: Wisco / Pro-X PN 29.VSK748: 1.20 ~ 3.50 MM in .050 MM INCREMENTS - 46 SIZES x 3 EA EA. SIZE ENDS IN X.00 OR X.50 MM Pro-X PN 29.VSK748-2: 1.225 ~ 3.475 MM in .025 MM INCREMENTS - 46 SIZES x 3 EA EA. SIZE ENDS IN X.25 or X.475 MM So to have every size in .25 increments one must have both sets at about $90 ea set https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/2838/24277/Pro-X-Valve-Shim-Kit?v=11963&PID=6160227&ref=cj What to do? Pro-X shims supposedly are private labeled for them by the OEM manufacturers I believe in Taiwan or Japan (doubtful on the latter) Hot Cams PN HCSHIM01: 1.20 ~ 3.50 MM in .050 MM INCREMENTS - 46 SIZES x 3 EA $58 or less are also are made in Taiwan and possibly some in China https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/922/10839/Hot-Cams-Valve-Shim-Kit?3&v=5959 Hot Cams shims do not hold up. Don't waste your money. Pro-X shims are also available in all sizes individually. Do the tear down, figure out your requirements, order from Rocky Mountain, 2 days later you have your shims, put it back together. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted January 28, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted January 28, 2017 What, wait and not have instant gratification?! I've also had the experience of measuring everything very carefully installing what you think are the proper shims and reassembling only to find that they're still not exactly where you wanted each lash and having to pull it again being OCD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 What, wait and not have instant gratification?! I've also had the experience of measuring everything very carefully installing what you think are the proper shims and reassembling only to find that they're still not exactly where you wanted each lash and having to pull it again being OCD I know exactly what you mean but that's the chance you have to take if you want to do it on the cheap. After you install the new shims, you want to cycle the motor several revolutions and carefully measure it again. Then do whatever it takes to get it perfect. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 What, wait and not have instant gratification?! After you install the new shims, you want to cycle the motor several revolutions and carefully measure it again. Then do whatever it takes to get it perfect. john ... and while I think about it - DO NOT turn this engine over by hand without the valve cover installed! Save yourself some pain and reinstall it temporarily while rotating the engine over several times after reinstalling the camshafts. Then remove it to double check your clearances There is a guide mounted to the underside of the valve cover where it helps to hold the chain on the cam sprockets and keep everything from jumping time. Oh and it may cost a bit more per shim, but Yamaha also offers very close sizes: 2.15, 2.17, 2.18, 2.20, 2.22 etc if you can't find a ProX kit. -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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