20 second test to help me diagnose a problem

[petshark]

If you have the time to do this little test, it would be greatly appreciated.
It's possible that what I'm showing here is normal, but @Manxkiwi did the test and had no resistance whatsoever. So I'm checking to see if this narrows down my problem. I thought it might be oil type or temperature related but was advised that it is not.

For more information, see this thread

Thank you!

[RandyN]

I did it and voted. What I noticed is that at first push on bike there is a good amount of resistance and I can hear it pull the chain tight. This is after sitting overnight and therefore the clutch would be about as dry and plates would be as compressed together as they would ever be. After first roll back and forth it then seemed to lessen up on resistance and rolled more easily. Still a little there but much less than at first.

Hope this helps.

[whisperquiet]

Normal with most motorcycles.  I park my motorcycles in neutral unless on a hill.....I also start my bikes in neutral + pull in the clutch to reduce clutch plate drag.

Edited March 9, 2021 by whisperquiet

[peteinpa]

Just did it. 50F in my basement bike hasn't run in days. 15 with no slipper clutch. Castrol Actevo semi-syn.  10-40 motorcycle oil.

Put it in 2nd and initially there is resistance, with very little rolling the plates ungoo from each other and then the same resistance as in neutral.

So I voted yes, but it's kind of in the middle.

What weight oil are you using?

Edited March 9, 2021 by peteinpa

[nhchris]

Normal.  Back in the day of kick starters we would "run it through" once or twice to free up the clutch before starting.

Don't you remember?  

[kilo3]

2020 Tracer, no discernible difference between neutral and in gear with clutch pulled. 40F cold engine. 10w-40 mobil.

[petshark]

3 hours ago, RandyN said:

Still a little there but much less than at first.

Exactly my experience.

2 hours ago, whisperquiet said:

I also start my bikes in neutral + pull in the clutch to reduce clutch plate drag.

My too and now I know why. 🙂

1 hour ago, peteinpa said:

initially there is resistance, with very little rolling the plates ungoo from each other and then the same resistance as in neutral.

So I voted yes, but it's kind of in the middle.

What weight oil are you using?

Also like mine. I just did an oil change with Motul 5100 10w40 semi-syn, so the same just another brand.

1 hour ago, nhchris said:

Normal.  Back in the day of kick starters we would "run it through" once or twice to free up the clutch before starting.

Don't you remember?  

I do! it was only a 50cc though and I was 16. 🙂 I thought it was to prime the carburetor though.

 

Thank you everyone! I guess we can put this to rest. I consider it proven to be normal. So @Manxkiwi I have no idea why your clutch is not sticky in this situation. Still think it could be the oil.

[petshark]

8 minutes ago, kilo3 said:

2020 Tracer, no discernible difference between neutral and in gear with clutch pulled. 40F cold engine. 10w-40 mobil.

I put this to rest too soon it seems, our posts crossed. Full or semi synthetic? Probably doesn't matter. I'm now pretty sure that this is nothing to do with my issue but it's still interesting to find out why we now have 2 bikes with no difference and 8 with. Maybe it's something they changed on the 2020 model?

Edited March 9, 2021 by petshark

[kilo3]

1 minute ago, petshark said:

I put this to rest too soon it seems, our posts crossed. Full or semi synthetic?

Full.

[petshark]

1 minute ago, kilo3 said:

Full.

I was told be the dealer that full syn is too slippery for this engine but I then was told that this is an old wives tale on the other thread. If both the bikes that don't have the clutch resisting in this test are full syn and the other are semi, we may have proved that it is more slippery. If it's in fact too slippery is another thing entirely and I have no horse in that race.

[kilo3]

9 minutes ago, petshark said:

I was told be the dealer that full syn is too slippery for this engine but I then was told that this is an old wives tale on the other thread. If both the bikes that don't have the clutch resisting in this test are full syn and the other are semi, we may have proved that it is more slippery. If it's in fact too slippery is another thing entirely and I have no horse in that race.

Couldn't tell ya either, I've always ran yamalube for the first 1k then mobil after that just because it's easier to source locally around here at auto parts stores.

[Ride365]

13 minutes ago, petshark said:

I was told be the dealer that full syn is too slippery for this engine but I then was told that this is an old wives tale on the other thread. If both the bikes that don't have the clutch resisting in this test are full syn and the other are semi, we may have proved that it is more slippery. If it's in fact too slippery is another thing entirely and I have no horse in that race.

Yup that was me, and there are many bikes these days that come straight from the factory with full synthetic oil in the crankcase, same goes for many cars as well. Other than the extra you pay, full synthetic is superior in every single way to dino.....I run Motul 7100 4T ester synthetic and put it in at around 525 miles. 

[Wintersdark]

Just did this myself, for Science.

 

It's -5C right now; below freezing, and I've got 5-40w synthetic in there.  When I start my bike on the centerstand, it'll run the rear tire at about 10kph in neutral until the oil warms up and there's actually noted resistance to stopping the tire by hand (though you can, it just kinda hurts because the winters are very bitey).

Pushing the bike as per OP directions, there's a noticeable resistance to the first motion, but once the bike is moving it's there but very minimal.

All that said: This is normal and as expected.  Cold oil makes the clutch way less slippy, and as everything sits cold and motionless together it sticks a bit requiring a bit more force to get stuff slipping.

[petshark]

1 hour ago, Wintersdark said:

Just did this myself, for Science.

 

It's -5C right now; below freezing, and I've got 5-40w synthetic in there.  When I start my bike on the centerstand, it'll run the rear tire at about 10kph in neutral until the oil warms up and there's actually noted resistance to stopping the tire by hand (though you can, it just kinda hurts because the winters are very bitey).

Pushing the bike as per OP directions, there's a noticeable resistance to the first motion, but once the bike is moving it's there but very minimal.

All that said: This is normal and as expected.  Cold oil makes the clutch way less slippy, and as everything sits cold and motionless together it sticks a bit requiring a bit more force to get stuff slipping.

Well put. I hadn't even thought about the wheel spin on the centerstand to be part of the same thing. Thanks!

[Manxkiwi]

The wheel turning in neutral will just be gear/oil drag.

Maybe I wasn't specific enough in the main post? There is a bit of resistance as the clutch frees itself, then very little. There is a multi plate clutch in there, you must feel it a bit. But once rolling around, virtually nothing, extremely low resistance.

You could try adjusting your cable to no slack (for a test), then try the roll around test and see if its freer? (More free). To be sure the clutch is fully releasing. If it's still resistant to pushing around then there could be an issue? Still guessing..