Clutch resistance

[petshark]

I was really looking forward to just enjoy the bike after fixing the brake and bearing issues recently but now something else is wrong. I hope you all aren't getting tired of me posting one issue after the other. 😬 I'm planning a solo tour of the Swiss mountain passes in June so I really need the bike to be reliable.

Here it goes.. There's a resistance to the clutch feel that seems to getting worse. It's hard to explain but it feels like there are steps in the travel of the lever. Like dragging over rubber but subtle... resistance builds up, then a little jump and this happens about 4 to 5 times from clutch out to pulled in. It's not super obvious and for a long time I could only feel it when shifting during a ride. When the bike was idling or turned off the clutch felt normal. Now I can feel it all the time but sometimes it's worse that others. I also think the clutch felt lighter when I first got the bike but as it went gradually I'm not sure. After a very spirited ride today it actually seemed to be a little better in the end.

This started a few weeks back and I thought it was because of an aftermarket lever. That lever had been on there for a while without issue but still it was the obvious suspect. These levers fit perfectly, and were recommended on this forum and from a good brand. They say they sell thousands a year without issue but nonetheless they sent me 2 replacements under warranty. It just slowly got worse.

After the second replacement I've started troubleshooting yesterday:

-Tried all positions of the aftermarket lever
-Put the stock lever back > still the same
-Lubed the clutch cable (motion pro tool) > tested it with both endpoints disconnected and the cable is super loose on it's own, absolutely no resistance.
-Only the Lever connected to the cable > no resistance.
-The cable looks brand new, no loose strands or other damage anywhere to be seen.
-Checked the routing of the cable and it's fine, as expected since the cable glides smooth on it's own.
-Checked the angles of the cable on both endpoints and it moves straight in and out of the brake line.

I'm afraid everything points to the clutch itself causing this. I've had the bike for less than 3 months and still wonder daily if the quirks of the engine are normal for this triple or if there is something wrong. At high speeds it feels great but I did some parking lot drills this week and feathering the clutch does not sound and feel like a healthy machine to me. It's getting hard to feather at all with the jumpy response of the lever.

Some more clues:

-The gears are not slipping.
-There's no difference in which gear I am so I don't think it's gearbox related.
-Just did an oil change (motul 5100 semi synthetic) and the gears are smoother but the clutch is not better.

The bike is still under warranty for about a month but the symptoms I have are not as such that I can get a dealer to do a warranty claim I fear. They would need to investigate and I would have to pay for all that work if they can't find anything.

So once again, any advice would be greatly appreciated. What more can I do? Take the clutch apart and investigate probably? I've never done that but it looks easy enough. Do you think the gasket can be reinstalled after only 6000 miles on the bike?

Edited February 28, 2021 by petshark

[peteinpa]

😲😲😣 Wow.  I feel like I'm in school again. another test.

OK. start with pics of the cable and clutch arm at the clutch end. Also pics at the lever end with a part of the cable run to where it goes past the handlebar. 

This is a 19 so you have the slipper clutch and should have the updated cable.

I just put the new updated cable on my 15 (no slipper clutch) and it's so smooth and light.  Yours should be lighter and smoother than mine.

Even with it being so new and the cable lubed, it sounds like the cable has busted a few strands.

[Ride365]

You seriously need to quit looking for problems and just ride/enjoy this awesome machine, problems and issues are so rare with these bikes......just sayin.

[1moreroad]

Check the free play down at the motor and adjust if necessary.  Fine tune it at the lever.

Good video:

Go to ~ 4:35 to adjust at the motor.

[Wintersdark]

Definitely sounds like wearing cable.  How proactive are you with cable lubrication?  Do you do it regularly, particularly when riding in rain etc?  

That said, it's not really a light clutch, even being a slipper clutch.  It's REALLY unusual for a cable to fail inside of a year of ownership even if never lubed.  

 

And are you really sure there's a problem, and that you're not just paranoid and imagining things?

[2WHLOZK]

If you can't solve it yourself soon, I'd take it to the dealer while it's still under warranty.  Maybe put the stock lever back on first so they can't blame it on that.  Stay on them, make a tech ride it until he acknowledges an issue.  It can't cost too much to have a tech ride it, he should know right away if anything is actually wrong.  They may not even charge you for a quick test ride.  

 

[Wintersdark]

3 hours ago, 2WHLOZK said:

If you can't solve it yourself soon, I'd take it to the dealer while it's still under warranty.  Maybe put the stock lever back on first so they can't blame it on that.  Stay on them, make a tech ride it until he acknowledges an issue.  It can't cost too much to have a tech ride it, he should know right away if anything is actually wrong.  They may not even charge you for a quick test ride.  

 

This is a very good answer, too.  *Definitely* put the stock level back on first, because yeah, they will absolutely blame the aftermarket lever - not necessarily the shop, but Yamaha will.  

[petshark]

Thank you for the suggestions! I've made a video to show the issue.

12 hours ago, peteinpa said:

OK. start with pics of the cable and clutch arm at the clutch end. Also pics at the lever end with a part of the cable run to where it goes past the handlebar.

Is the top nut on the picture on the right is supposed to be sitting that low? The cable is not coming out straight after all but the brake line does sit flush in the holder so I don't think it is an issue.

8 hours ago, 2WHLOZK said:

I'd take it to the dealer while it's still under warranty.  Maybe put the stock lever back on first so they can't blame it on that.

I have an appointment on Friday to get the brake switch replaced under warranty (recall) and if I will try but knowing my dealer I'm pretty sure he will say that this is normal. The stock lever is back on until this is solved. 👍

9 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

Definitely sounds like wearing cable.  How proactive are you with cable lubrication?  Do you do it regularly, particularly when riding in rain etc?  

I hadn't lubricated it before but I only have the bike for two months and the clutch feel was super light compared to the Versys.

10 hours ago, 1moreroad said:

Check the free play down at the motor and adjust if necessary.  Fine tune it at the lever.

I forgot to mention that I had done this as well while trying to find out what was going on. No change however.

11 hours ago, Ride365 said:

You seriously need to quit looking for problems and just ride/enjoy this awesome machine, problems and issues are so rare with these bikes......just sayin.

I hear you and have told myself that as well but the previous problems were also very real. I don't know if you've seen the resolutions in my previous threads but the pads were contaminated and the brakes were dangerously under-powered. A bearing on the front wheel had no grease in it and the brakes were dragging so hard that I would come to a stop within a few meters when letting go of the throttle. All problems that I fixed with the forum's help and I don't think I should have ignored. 

I don't know what the previous owner did or if I'm just unlucky. 🤷‍♂️ On the positive side I am learning a lot about wrenching so it's not all bad.

[peteinpa]

This is very hard to diagnose from afar. 

The clutch lever is very creaky.  it still seems like a cable problem. It also seems strange that the cable adjustment at the clutch end is at the loose limit.

[Buggy Nate]

I find engine oil or a heavy gear oil a much better lubricant than aerosol silicone spray. It just doesn’t hang on as nice. You can make a small funnel out of bluetac or plasticine and feed the oil it until it soaks through. That lever bush could do with some grease too. 
I reckon the previous owner may have washed the bike with a gurney or other form of pressure washer and has pushed all the grease out of everything. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve seen that.

[peteinpa]

Good point. A pressure washer would explain a lot with all problems so far. Could that bearing at the top of the clutch cover get contaminated from a pressure washer?

[Your_Boy_Yuriy]

petshark, 

As for the adjusting clutch cable nuts they do seems on the far side. When I get home I'll take some pictures/videos of my bike for reference. I haven't adjusted anything yet or installed new levers. I am guessing those aftermarket levers might of cause some cable stretch, but who knows. 

Anyways, have the dealer inspect it, their professionals.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Your_Boy_Yuriy

[roy826]

The spring on the shaft arm at the engine is not hooked back onto the engine tab on case. That is your problem. Easy fix no need to take to dealer.

[petshark]

3 hours ago, roy826 said:

The spring on the shaft arm at the engine is not hooked back onto the engine tab on case. That is your problem. Easy fix no need to take to dealer.

I unhooked that spring for the purpose of the video to take its creaking out of the equation.

3 hours ago, peteinpa said:

Good point. A pressure washer would explain a lot with all problems so far. Could that bearing at the top of the clutch cover get contaminated from a pressure washer?

That makes sense, would I be able to check that?

4 hours ago, Buggy Nate said:

That lever bush could do with some grease too. 
I reckon the previous owner may have washed the bike with a gurney or other form of pressure washer and has pushed all the grease out of everything. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve seen that.

The lever bushing is greased every time I take it out. It's moves really smooth.. just as the cable does on it's own.

 

The thing that interests me the most is that nobody says that the jumpy resistance is normal so I will think of some further testing to see if I can rule out the lever and cable. Perhaps by connecting some sort of spring on a fix point to the clutch-side ball-end and to see if the lever moves as it should without the connected.

Edited March 1, 2021 by petshark

[peteinpa]

After looking at the parts schematic, that shaft bearing under the clutch cover looks like it's lubed by engine oil.

Try putting a finger on the clutch actuator arm and then pull the lever and see if you can feel the jerkiness there.

I still think it's the cable. It will act different under tension vs just sliding along. Might be all rusty in there from a pressure washer. Get the special lube for cables. It used to come as a kit with the luber tool.