Clutch resistance

[Ride365]

My bad.....didn't realize for some reason that the OP didn't buy this bike brand new from dealer, but damn if you aren't have some dumb crap luck with such a brand new bike. 🤔

[Your_Boy_Yuriy]

I guess I learned a very important lesson don’t pressure wash a bike. Lol

[PhotoAl]

Have you tried to move the clutch leaver with the cable disconnected?  That could give you some insight into cable or something else.  To me looks like the spring is a bit off color like maybe a small bit or corrosion, bike looks very clean so doubt that.  I have the same cable lube device you are using.  Think it was my CBR600RR that developed a heavy clutch pull, lubed the cable with that device - very handy and really helped but did not last a long time.  Cannot remember what I used after that but it lasted longer.  I put 18,000 miles on that bike.  My BMW F800GT was service at the dealer and that was something they did a good job on was lubing and adjusting the cables - LOL to the BMW spec!  I gave up adjusting to suit me and just lived with it as was getting a device done twice a year.  I would look at the bearing where the clutch lever shaft goes thru the housing and make sure it is well lubricated.  I always use blue waterproof grease.  Seems like others are saying it should be lubricated by engine oil splashing into that area but there is also a seal it goes thru - so engine oil doesn't leak out.  Someone mentioned a broken strand in the cable which seems to me as plausible and something that might not show up when unloaded but would occur when loaded.  Thats why I think moving the leaver with the cable disconnected would help isolate the problem.    

Sorry you have had so many issues with your bike.  They are really nice bikes but a bike that isn't right is frustrating.  Wonder if the previous owner ran into some of the issues and sold instead of fixing.

[whisperquiet]

I would unhook the clutch cable ends from the clutch lever on the handlebar and the engine lever.  Push/pull the cable back and forth in the outer sheath.....you should able easily to determine if the cable is rough or hanging up due to a frayed inner cable, damaged outer sheath, or some broken strands.  If the inner cable movement is smooth, your problem lies elsewhere.

Just like you did👍 So, it is inside the case.  Make sure you have enough cable free play when adjusting the cable.  I didn’t like the pull of my Tracer GT clutch cable and installed the longer clutch lifting arm from the R3.

Edited March 2, 2021 by whisperquiet

[petshark]

4 hours ago, whisperquiet said:

Just like you did👍 So, it is inside the case.  Make sure you have enough cable free play when adjusting the cable.

I've always wondered we need that free play? I never liked that free travel of the lever, just like I don't like it on the throttle side.

6 hours ago, PhotoAl said:

I would look at the bearing where the clutch lever shaft goes thru the housing and make sure it is well lubricated.  I always use blue waterproof grease.

Do you mean from the outside or open it up?

@Your_Boy_Yuriy Thanks for the video, the ease with which you move your clutch reminds me of how it used to be.

14 hours ago, peteinpa said:

Try putting a finger on the clutch actuator arm and then pull the lever and see if you can feel the jerkiness there.

I can feel it there.

 

I checked the cable again and played with it, rotated it, max in and out and I really think it is still like new. The parts that come out when both ends are loose and normally never see daylight did not have a speck or rust. The transparent lubricant came out as clear as it went in so I don't think there is any rust in there. Then I checked the lever again and found out that you can in fact obstruct it's movement by tightening the bolt! So it needs to be loose to allow the lever to move freely. That means that I have been experiencing an enlarged version of the issue. The jerkiness was exaggerated by the resistance of the lever itself.

That said, the video I made above is with that bolt completely loose so the jerkiness is definitely coming from the clutch itself.

Now that I know this I should probably do a sanity check:

This is with everything attached and tight like it should be when riding. Can anyone replicate this or is it just a smooth pull for you even if it requires some force?

[Your_Boy_Yuriy]

Okay, after thinking more about your problem. You definitely don't need a new clutch cable, not sure why I said that. Just adjust it, if needed, your bike is way too new. Most likely water got into oil seal and the bearing during the pressure wash. Inspect parts 29 & 30 and add some lube. That should fix your problem. 

See the image below:

29: OIL SEAL,SD-TYPE. Part #: 93102-15212-00

30: BEARING. Part #: 93315-21570-00

 

[peteinpa]

If you still have a used bike warranty have them take off the clutch cover and investigate.

I still think #30 bearing is lubed from engine oil but I've not had it apart.

[Wintersdark]

13 hours ago, petshark said:

 

This is with everything attached and tight like it should be when riding. Can anyone replicate this or is it just a smooth pull for you even if it requires some force?

Mine's seen a lot of hard miles, and it's always been smooth.  Not light, but smooth, no jerkiness or binding in it's travel.  

It does lead me to wonder if there's some damage in the clutch basket - in those slots that the tabs of the friction plates slide through, little burrs that the plates snag on as the plates move.  Just spitballing here, though; I'd really want to just look through there and see if there's any visible wear anywhere.  The bike is way too young for there to be any wear that would be considered normal.

I do think at this point you're best asking the dealer to check it themselves when the bike is in for the recall (can't hurt to have a pro look) but if you don't get somewhere there, I'd pull apart the clutch and look for worn bits.  If there are some marks in there, a gentle kiss with a file could smooth things up.  

Warranties generally speaking won't cover the clutch as it's a wear item.  

 

Out of curiousity (and my apologies if you've already said) how long has it been since your last oil change?  Not that I think this is the problem, really, but just to cover all the bases: What oil are you running?  It's a wet clutch, so it's always running in a bath of engine oil - and thus engine oil can definitely impact it.   Not that what brand of oil is important (it's not), but is it new?  Does it meet all the required specs API Service SG, JASO MA?  Correct viscosity?  The correct amount (measured when the bike is upright, not on the sidestand)?

Edited March 2, 2021 by Wintersdark

[peteinpa]

Might be on to something with clutch basket notches.

If previous owner was a registered clutch abuser.

BTW petshark : the clutch needs a smidge of free play all the time or it will slip and wear out. It needs to release all the way. 

[Waldo Jeffers]

What is a “registered clutch abuser”? And where do I get registered!?

[petshark]

Thank you all for your help. I will try to convince the dealer on Friday and if that fails open up the clutch myself.

I went riding yesterday for 4 hours of twisties. The good news is that I can take back the "it's getting worse" part. It was only worse because I over-tightened the lever bolt (turns that it needs to be so loose that a torque spec would be impossible I think).

So here are the facts: The jerkiness in the lever started in the middle of a 2 hour ride about 6 weeks ago. I had owned the bike for about a month and done just 1000 miles. At first it happened just once every couple of shifts but after half an hour it was every time I shifted. When pulling the lever without engine load (idle or off) you could not feel anything. Now that the lever moves free again I think the situation is the same as it was at the end of that first ride when it started. So something happened then but it did not really get worse I think.

Important clues:

What I show in the video shows multiple "bumps" throughout the entire travel of the lever but the real issue is felt when riding and shifting normally; where you briefly let go of the gas and pull in the clutch to shift. This way I get exactly two obvious bumps at the beginning of the travel. I would say where the clutch starts to let go.

Yesterday I experimented at speed and found that it does not happen when I keep the throttle open and pull the clutch. The RPM sky rocket obviously and this is no way to shift but it may mean something to someone.

Engine off / fixed RPM / climbing RPM / very low RPM (coming to a stop)
= very subtle jerky resistance as in the video that is hardly noticeable felt during a quick lever pull.

Engine breaking/under load while quickly changing gears
= double "bump" that is very noticeable during a quick lever pull.

9 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

how long has it been since your last oil change?  Not that I think this is the problem, really, but just to cover all the bases: What oil are you running?

I did an oil and filter change a week ago. I think there was fully synthetic in there and I changed to Motul 5100 10w40 semi-synthetic, because I still had 7.5 liters left over from my Kawasaki's. Just as with those bikes I immediately felt the gears were smoother but it did nothing in regard to the clutch issue.

[peteinpa]

7 hours ago, Waldo Jeffers said:

What is a “registered clutch abuser”? And where do I get registered!?

Registration is automatic when you buy clutch parts long before 50k miles.

[Wintersdark]

13 hours ago, peteinpa said:

Might be on to something with clutch basket notches.

If previous owner was a registered clutch abuser.

BTW petshark : the clutch needs a smidge of free play all the time or it will slip and wear out. It needs to release all the way. 

Something like lots of real hard clutchup wheelies, I'd imagine.  Pin throttle, dump clutch.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

[peteinpa]

5 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

Something like lots of real hard clutchup wheelies, I'd imagine.  Pin throttle, dump clutch.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Yep, add inept drag strip style launches and you can waste a clutch in no time.

[petshark]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:14 PM, peteinpa said:

I still think it's the cable. It will act different under tension vs just sliding along. Might be all rusty in there from a pressure washer.

I flushed a ton of transparant silicone lubricant through there and it came out at the bottom completely clean. With both ends detached you can see pieces of the cable that normally never see daylight and the cable looks brand new in every way.

But.. you were right!!

It is the cable. 
I used vise grips (with some cardboard in between for protection) to check the clutch arm on it’s own and it was completely normal. Great!

I lubed the cable again but it is definitely binding somehow. When it’s not under tension it is super loose. I can twist and move it to its extremes but there is no way to get any hint that something is not right inside. When I pull on both ends and move it this way I can immediately feel the familiar jerkiness. 

I then spent a lot of time on the routing of the cable and disconnected the cable tie near the top. I was trying to change the angles to find if I could make it better or worse but had little success. 

So I guess I’ll get a new cable. 😁
 

Edited March 3, 2021 by petshark