Cornering Question

[Bimbim18]

Right outside the gate from my job is a roundabout. The highlight of my day.

 

It's about 50-60 feet wide but I have to make a left (270 degrees) so it's not a sharp tight roundabout, but not a long sweeping one either. The approach is pretty straight, I setup for the lean ahead of time (shift my body and butt) and on entering I'm on the left side of entry lane and enter on the right side of the inner lane (the entry lane is 1 lane, part of the roundabout is 2 lanes, with a single lane exit) at about 20-25 MPH and slowly accelerate as I go around the roundabout.

 

When I get to about 180 degrees sometimes I feel like I'm going into the exit a little wide and want to bring it in a little tighter, but I have a weird feeling sensation, where I can't tell if the bike wants me to steer or countersteer to turn tighter inwards. (And then I have to lean the bike right for the exit)

 

Am I accelerating too much? Maybe leaning too much on entry?

Any tips/advice? 

 

Thanks guys

 

 

[PhotoAl]

Know what you are talking about.  I still have to work a bit at slow speed manuvering.  Look where you want to go.  As you are accelerating the bike will want to stand up and you will need more counter steer/force to keep it down.  Not talking about huge amounts here but not counteracting will make it tend to run wider.  Think of it as an arc and accelerating with open up the arc.  Making the transition from long left to right quickly can be tricky.  Check you suspension settings as well.  I dropped the triples 7mm from stock which helps.  Watch some videos on motorcycle gymkhanas.  It's amazing what they do and at low speeds.

EDIT:  I would recommend trying to improve technique first before increasing speed, maybe even a bit slower to perfect before increasing speed.  Also remember that at low speeds a bike turns with the bars but at speeds above say 15 or 20 it transitions to contersteer.

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by PhotoAl

[OZVFR]

You also need to let the bike lean underneath you as you won’t be going fast enough to lean with it. 
Put your weight forward and hands lose on the bars. 
You might also need to ride the clutch a bit to keep revs up. 
I also find going in with throttle and rear brake helps keep back end under control. 

[Bimbim18]

OZVFR- so your saying maybe I'm leaning the bike too much?

[peteinpa]

Glaring thing I see is testing lean angles with cold tires. 

[OZVFR]

The bike will need to lean, but you won’t be carrying enough speed to lean your body with it too much unless you hit the roundabout at high speed. 

If you watch some of the gymkhana videos, you will see bikes leaning under the rider, not that I’m suggesting you do the same, but you’ll get the idea. 

[koth442]

I'll just leave this here...

 

[Pupsi]

And don't touch the front brake while turning as it tries to straighten the bike.

[johnmark101]

NIck Ienatsch has an excellent book called "Performance Riding Techniques".  Well worth the read.

"Twist Of The Wrist 2" by Keith Code is a good read as well.

[piotrek]

8 hours ago, Pupsi said:

And don't touch the front brake while turning as it tries to straighten the bike.

[Wintersdark]

Ooof.  

The bike will turn faster on the side of the tire, so you need to be leaning it.  

The trick - as @OZVFR mentions - is just leaning the bike under you instead of leaning with it.  You CAN lean with the bike at any speed and that will ultimately get you the fastest cornering, but at low speeds it's much less forgiving of mistakes and traction loss.  Meanwhile, if you lean the bike under you and remain upright yourself, you keep the center of gravity closer to being over the contact patch resulting in easier control and better grip.  You'll see this happen in any low speed maneuvering video, and it's absolutely necessary when riding in low traction circumstances such as dirt.  

[maximo]

I won't add anything new, but I'll say it differently:  Your bike will be leaning virtually every time you turn. 

 

1. Sometimes you lean with the bike, or maybe even hang off the bike (like a racer would)

2. Sometimes the bike will be leaning and you'll be sitting straight up (like a dirt bike rider would)

When you're going fast, #1 is the way to go.

When you're going slow #2 is the way to go.

When you're in that weird middle ground like you describe, try one or the other. 

 

*Note that there's an exception to everything. Initially be guided by the rule, not the exception. Those can come in later. 

[daboo]

On 12/14/2021 at 5:18 PM, Bimbim18 said:

Right outside the gate from my job is a roundabout. The highlight of my day.

... I setup for the lean ahead of time (shift my body and butt)

You're going into a roundabout...not a high-speed turn on a racetrack.  Your bike doesn't need any help to get around the "turn".  So just sit on the bike like you're making a turn in a parking lot.  It's not much different in speed or the amount of a turn.  In fact...you shouldn't be leaning at all.  Leaning works fine...if you have enough speed.  Which you shouldn't have in a situation where the person ahead of you could stop immediately without warning and without any logical reason to stop.  Be ready with your rear brake and refrain from using the front.  If your front wheel is turned any and you have to grab it hard...you'll go over before you know what happened.  Once you're moving at more than 5 mph...then stick with the front brake.

On 12/14/2021 at 8:16 PM, PhotoAl said:

Look where you want to go.

That's the secret to any turn.  Where you look, is where you'll go.  Whether at 5 mph in a roundabout, or 100 mph on a track.

As for "setup for the lean ahead of time" in normal riding...don't.  That's great on a track.  If you're riding at 95% on back country roads and needing to "shift my body and butt"...then you have nothing extra to go to if you find you're coming into a turn too hot.  Around my neck of the woods, it'll get you killed.  The back roads are blind corners.  You don't know if a muddy washout occurred where you can't see, or if someone broke down just around the turn.  Or someone stopping to take a picture.  Or a cow standing in the middle of the road.  You can still have a blast without resorting to techniques that are great in a race...but not on public roads.

Chris

[Bimbim18]

Great reads guys thanks. I've not taken my bike to a track yet, so as a noob still trying to expand my comfort zones and abilities.

Not trying to be street Rossi, but trying to have some fun and understand stuff out of my normal scope a bit more.

I'm hoping to get a track day in our 2 someone this upcoming year. Having a clean and clear road without soccer moms trying to run me off the road I'm sure will allow me to focus more on increasing my abilities.

[OutlanderBC]

I very highly recommend every rider take the online ChampU course.

Seriously... You won't regret it!
https://ridelikeachampion.com/courses-page/