Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted May 18, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted May 18, 2018 I've read how the CP3 engines often were found to have premature tightening of the valve lash but it was unclear how frequently. However, I should have checked my valves 4,000+ miles ago when I noticed a tightness as well as a drop in performance and gas mileage but darn it, 26,000 miles was 5,000+ miles away and I have the 4 year extended Yamahahaha warranty (though from what I've read they try their best not to honor it). I thought maybe it was the change over to summer ethanol or that I had twice the miles on the spark plugs than called for but heck, I had installed Iridium fine wire sparkies and wanted to see how they ran (given at 8,000 miles the OEM cave man era regular plugs looked great. I had the CCT replaced per the TSB by the dealer several thousand miles ago and have read extensively how Yamaha insiders recommend going to a manual CCT. So a bought an APE from Stoltec and planned to install it with the valve check, oil filter and engine oil, plug and coolant change, along with Spiegler brake lines, a new 09~14 R1 Brembo front brake MC, and check the TB sync and APS settings. So I waited until I reach about 24,000 miles. Maybe that was a mistake. All the valve lash were very tight, extremely tight. And I discovered galling of the bearing journals and on some of the cam lobes (and pit on one lobe). So what is a boy to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhs10 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 This is disconcerting considering @vinnie's dilemma... Guess I will get my valves checked earlier than the book calls for.. but how early? '15 FJ-09 w/ lots of extras... Fayetteville, GA, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member betoney Posted May 18, 2018 Supporting Member Share Posted May 18, 2018 Well now you have me nervous, my scheduled road trips begin next week and I am almost at 20k miles. 1500 miles next week, a month later 3700 mile trip, 2 weeks later 1300 miles, a month later 3200 miles, and then after Labor Day I have all of the Autumn road trips... I dont have any extended down time until November. I have brought in my previous Yamaha for valve check every 26k miles and only needed the slightest adjustment, nothing ever catastrophic. ***2015 Candy Red FJ-09*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnie Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 I've read how the CP3 engines often were found to have premature tightening of the valve lash but it was unclear how frequently. However, I should have checked my valves 4,000+ miles ago when I noticed a tightness as well as a drop in performance and gas mileage but darn it, 26,000 miles was 5,000+ miles away and I have the 4 year extended Yamahahaha warranty (though from what I've read they try their best not to honor it). I thought maybe it was the change over to summer ethanol or that I had twice the miles on the spark plugs than called for but heck, I had installed Iridium fine wire sparkies and wanted to see how they ran (given at 8,000 miles the OEM cave man era regular plugs looked great. I had the CCT replaced per the TBS by the dealer several thousand miles ago and have read extensively how Yamaha insiders recommend going to a manual CCT. So a bought an APE from Stoltec and planned to install it with the valve check, oil filter and engine oil, plug and coolant change, along with Spiegler brake lines, a new 09~14 R1 Brembo front brake MC, and check the TB sync and APS settings. So I waited until I reach about 24,000 miles. Maybe that was a mistake. All the valve lash were very tight, extremely tight. And I discovered galling of the bearing journals and on some of the cam lobes (and pit on one lobe). So what is a boy to do? I was just talking to the guy that owns the shop, which has had my FJ for the last 3 months... He said that he would have wanted to take the head off and check everything at the point I was at (22k miles), when another shop checked and adjusted my very tight exhaust valves. Not sure if that helps, but that's what he would do. I have to agree with him..my valves were abnormally tight and we just accepted it because everyone seemed to be reporting tight valves online. My valve guides are severely out of spec and the valves were able to wiggle around and hammer out the seats on the head. I hope your bike isn't having the same issue. Exhaust valves have been hard to come by for a while now. This is the link to the thread I started about my FJ09 troubles: https://fj-09.org/thread/6686/yamaha-unofficial-issue-fj-engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcal616 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 we need more data from others to narrow down the cause... was ECU flashed...even a flashed ECU for stock exhaust is better than OEM tune... was aftermarket(maybe its due to cheap ones?) exhaust installed w/o tune... was bike never ridden above 6k rpms? oil brands?- using Yamalube? how was engine broke in? 2012 wr250f - C-class 30+ age group 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition-80whp 2015 fj-09- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich tune by 2WDW @120whp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koth442 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 @2and3cylinders can you post picture of the cam-journals? @betoney you could do a leak down test and see if you have any sealing issues. Don't waste your time with a compression test. '15 FJ09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 @2and3cylinders can you post picture of the cam-journals? @betoney you could do a leak down test and see if you have any sealing issues. Don't waste your time with a compression test. Great advice for you Betoney. FYI any healthy sportbike engine should have anywhere from 150-210 lbs compression, whether it’s 2, 3, or for cylinders. However compression tests are close to worthless diagnostic wise over leak-down numbers. I’m curious about the “galling” as well. Does it visually just bother you? Because that isn’t indicative of “galling”. If you can feel the grooves with your fingernail, then it’s galled. If it’s smooth, no worries. Only way to test that for sure is to measure oil clearance between the cam journals and the corresponding cylinder head journals. Which requires plastiguage, and that’s a pain in the bucket. Or calculate it out and compare to spec and I don’t know if that’s as accurate? -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted May 19, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 19, 2018 I did not measure the depth of the galling but on the cam journals it could be felt slightly with a finger nail... "Worn-In" (not "Broken-In) like I stole it but oil changed at 60 miles with Yamalube GP and filter, run it hard every outing up to redline, after 4,000 miles went to Yamalube Blend then to their full Syn (now using Shell Rotella T6), ECU flashed by Vcyclenut (Dave), and I try to "break a ton" each ride. So no, not babied but also not abused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggy Nate Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 I did not measure the depth of the galling but on the cam journals it could be felt slightly with a finger nail... "Worn-In" (not "Broken-In) like I stole it but oil changed at 60 miles with Yamalube GP and filter, run it hard every outing up to redline, after 4,000 miles went to Yamalube Blend then to their full Syn (now using Shell Rotella T6), ECU flashed by Vcyclenut (Dave), and I try to "break a ton" each ride. So no, not babied but also not abused... That is completely normal and definitely not galling. It is simply where the cams run in the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted May 19, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 19, 2018 OK, if you are correct, I can sleep better. I just hope I have the cams correctly in-phase... I stalling the APE was a PITA because I could not get the chain to seat on the sprockets as well as I thought they it shout at 120 degrees BTDC on #1 cylinder. Did it twice and re-tensioning the cam journal caps twice is no fun. I also noted the chain varied in tension between the sprockets from a maximum of about 1/4" to 1/16"+ as I rotated the crank around 4 times to check valve lash (which came out near perfect at maximum gap except for one cylinder, which was under max by .03 mm I think on the exhausts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koth442 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Yea that looks normal to me. '15 FJ09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted May 20, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 20, 2018 What about the variation in cam chain tension, is that normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koth442 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 What do you mean variation in cam chain tension? All chains have slightly tighter spots than others. Point and case, the drive chain. But they aren't THAT much tighter. So we need a little more information please. '15 FJ09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted May 20, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 20, 2018 Per my post above "I also noted the chain varied in tension between the sprockets from a maximum of about 1/4" to 1/16"+ as I rotated the crank around 4 times to check valve lash". Note: Work done with spark plugs out and valve cover off. I checked chain tension between the cam sprockets at 120 BTDC on #1 per manual, and as I rotated engine CCW to check lash at TDC on each cylinder. It was interesting that when cylinder pressure and flywheel inertia "pushed" the pistons past a certain point where the moved on their own how cam chain tension did not slacken for each cylinder at the same valve timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Yes, that is pretty typical to see differences in cam chain tension when rotating by hand. 2 reasons: first, you can’t spin it fast enough by hand to keep up with the rotational speed of the cams rotating on their own, pressured by the valve springs and lobes. Second, and more importantly is that there is a chain guide built into the valve cover which puts pressure on the chain right where the tension changes between the sprocket gears when the cover is installed. But of course you can’t really watch the tension when the valve cover is installed though..... When the engine is running, everything smooths out and the oil flow to the tensioner allows the tensioner to “dampen” much of that fluctuation in chain tension. Just theories, I’m not an engineer. YouTube probably has videos though. -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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