In retrospect, the music did warn me...

[betoney]

22 minutes ago, Stew said:

I was going to post something along the lines of 'how do you ride slowly on a Tracer'. I used to love just taking my time around the back roads on my vstrom, but the Tracer engine doesn't seem to like it (I know, right wrist etc. ) , but I genuinely find it difficult to ride the bike slowly.

Its funny you mentioned that, there are roads that I have ridden many, many times (especially curvy mountain roads) and I recently drove through the same area in my truck looking at scenery and was thinking "Wow, I've never noticed that before" because I'm always so focused on attacking the corners. 😄

[Wintersdark]

8 hours ago, Stew said:

I was going to post something along the lines of 'how do you ride slowly on a Tracer'. I used to love just taking my time around the back roads on my vstrom, but the Tracer engine doesn't seem to like it (I know, right wrist etc. ) , but I genuinely find it difficult to ride the bike slowly.  I don't know if it's the gearing or what, but for me the engine doesn't like sitting in a high gear at low revs, I mean, 3rd in a 30mph limit is almost lugging, 2nd wants to crack on. I'm struggling with this.
And I am deadly serious. If you , or anyone, has any sprocket mods that would help with this, I'm all ears.
Anyway, I'm away out to play on the bike for an hour or so, and I'll do my absolute best to chill out and ride slower. I'll report back later

 

Honestly, the Booster Plug.  Or a flash, I think?  But that's the big improvement the Booster Plug offers.  I'm also running a 47 tooth rear sprocket (thus higher RPM at any given speed), so that's a consideration, but I was before installing it - and @2WHLOZK just installed one with a stock sprocket(I think?).  

It's really easy to hold 50-60kph (30-35ish mph).  No lugging feeling at all anymore - the biggest improvement I noticed with the plug is that you can move along at idle, no throttle at all, smoothly.   Before, doing that was a herky jerky mess.

7 hours ago, betoney said:

Its funny you mentioned that, there are roads that I have ridden many, many times (especially curvy mountain roads) and I recently drove through the same area in my truck looking at scenery and was thinking "Wow, I've never noticed that before" because I'm always so focused on attacking the corners. 😄

I get this all the time.  After I've been out riding on a new road, I'll take my wife and kids out in our Jeep.  It's a totally different process, as I'm not picking lines and setting up for corners taken at silly speeds.  Almost feels like completely different roads.  When I'm riding, I scan the sides of the roads for potential threats (typically, animals) but otherwise I'm pretty focused on the road itself: angles, banking, surface quality, etc.  I don't see much else, unless I pull over.

 

[Stew]

34 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

Honestly, the Booster Plug.  Or a flash, I think?  But that's the big improvement the Booster Plug offers.  I'm also running a 47 tooth rear sprocket (thus higher RPM at any given speed), so that's a consideration, but I was before installing it - and @2WHLOZK just installed one with a stock sprocket(I think?). 

 

Thanks, I was looking at that Booster Plug earlier, and I think it would give me what I want. Probably order one tomorrow. I appreciate the help. I'll maybe have a think about changing the rear sprocket size when it comes chain replacement time, but the more I think about it, the more the booster plug makes sense.

 

*UPDATE* Just ordered one, will report back when it arrives and I get it plugged in and have a ride with it installed.

[nhchris]

9 hours ago, betoney said:

Its funny you mentioned that, there are roads that I have ridden many, many times (especially curvy mountain roads) and I recently drove through the same area in my truck looking at scenery and was thinking "Wow, I've never noticed that before" because I'm always so focused on attacking the corners. 😄

I ride a rural road in NH on which most every corner has a directional arrow and recommended speed posted.  

Game is to double the suggested corner speeds if safely possible while staying in your lane. 

The suggested 15 & 20 mph corners are easy to double.  The suggested 35 mph corners demand a lot more attention and technique.

It's a totally different experience than cruising it in the family sedan and a lot more tiring!

[2and3cylinders]

4 hours ago, Stew said:

Thanks, I was looking at that Booster Plug earlier, and I think it would give me what I want. Probably order one tomorrow. I appreciate the help. I'll maybe have a think about changing the rear sprocket size when it comes chain replacement time, but the more I think about it, the more the booster plug makes sense.

 

*UPDATE* Just ordered one, will report back when it arrives and I get it plugged in and have a ride with it installed.

BolsterIng

Before I had the ECU flash, I had a module that plugged between the O2 sensor and it's harness made by an Aussie named Jeff or something.  Is that what you're talking about.

[Stew]

1 hour ago, 2and3cylinders said:

Before I had the ECU flash, I had a module that plugged between the O2 sensor and it's harness made by an Aussie named Jeff or something.  Is that what you're talking about.

This here...

Yamaha 800-900cc (MT-09) fuel injection tuning | BoosterPlug

---

Release the Power in your Yamaha, without the expensive setup of a Power...

 

[dazzler24]

3 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

BolsterIng

Before I had the ECU flash, I had a module that plugged between the O2 sensor and it's harness made by an Aussie named Jeff or something.  Is that what you're talking about.

I think that this is what you're referring to and his name is Kevin 🙂 ....

 

 

[2and3cylinders]

Stew, that's not what I had 

Daz, yes that's what I had but I was told with the flash I didn't need it, and sold it

Vcyclenut did my flash, twice. He didn't need to do it a second time I hadn't plugged it in well and thought there was a problem with it

dough! It caused all sorts of weird problems but still ran

Recently I've noticed poor running at constant throttle at lower revs which is got me confused but that may be totally unrelated to the ECU possibly spark plugs I checked the TB sync and valves not that long ago and they were good but don't want to have to go in after the plugs again

I haven't ridin it for a while because it's down for maintenance and rubber

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[Wintersdark]

19 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

BolsterIng

Before I had the ECU flash, I had a module that plugged between the O2 sensor and it's harness made by an Aussie named Jeff or something.  Is that what you're talking about.

No.

That's actually kind of an opposite approach.

The Booster Plug adds a second air intake temperature sensor to run together with the stock sensor.  This causes the ECU to read the outside air temperature as 20C/68F lower, and thus the ECU adds roughly 6% more fuel.  However - and this is the important part - it only does when the bike is running in Open Loop mode.  That is, at idle, under partial throttle, and under hard acceleration, where it's not using the O2 sensor at all.  Otherwise, such as when you're cruising about at speed the bike moves to closed loop mode and adjusts the air/fuel mixture as per the O2 sensor's responses.  This prevents wasting fuel and running richer all the time.  So, the difference in riding is that you get more fuel at idle for a cooler, steadier idle, and providing much better throttle response off idle.  As well, low speed travel either at idle or at very minimal throttle is also significantly smoothed out - making riding at a walking pace with the clutch fully engaged nice and smooth. 

 

[Stew]

5 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

No.

That's actually kind of an opposite approach.

The Booster Plug adds a second air intake temperature sensor to run together with the stock sensor.  This causes the ECU to read the outside air temperature as 20C/68F lower, and thus the ECU adds roughly 6% more fuel.  However - and this is the important part - it only does when the bike is running in Open Loop mode.  That is, at idle, under partial throttle, and under hard acceleration, where it's not using the O2 sensor at all.  Otherwise, such as when you're cruising about at speed the bike moves to closed loop mode and adjusts the air/fuel mixture as per the O2 sensor's responses.  This prevents wasting fuel and running richer all the time.  So, the difference in riding is that you get more fuel at idle for a cooler, steadier idle, and providing much better throttle response off idle.  As well, low speed travel either at idle or at very minimal throttle is also significantly smoothed out - making riding at a walking pace with the clutch fully engaged nice and smooth. 

 

Which is exactly what I was after. Incredibly impressed with the service from the Booster Plug people, ordered yesterday, being delivered on Thursday (free shipping) , USA to Scotland, that is amazing.
Hopefully I'll get it fitted over the weekend, (weather here at the moment is vile) and will keep you posted as to what difference I feel from it.
 

[2and3cylinders]

As with most flash there is a choice to turn off the O2 sensor and and only run in open-loop all the time per the new maps, which is what I selected.  I'd have to have the O2 reactivated to use the Booster Plug, which likely would play havoc with the current maps. Am I incorrect, or can a new flash compensation / work in harmony with the BP?

Inquiring minds need to know*

*for you non-US folks, that was a tagline of our National Inquirer rumor - bogus news rag

[dazzler24]

18 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

Daz, yes that's what I had but I was told with the flash I didn't need it, and sold it

Recently I've noticed poor running at constant throttle at lower revs which is got me confused but that may be totally unrelated to the ECU 

I asked the same question regarding whether I still needed it after an ECU flash but was 'assured' I did because the "open loop /closed loop" are separate when it comes to fueling.... what this means exactly I don't pretend to understand.

I did look into it but I've had a lot of drinks since then and can't remember the details! 😉

FWIW and for my experience - I have the O2 controller installed and the ECU flash done/provided by the same man (Kevin Hope (KevXTX)) and my 2015 bike is as smooth as silk - oh, I did the APS adjustment as well which I found to have quite an effect.

As stated, this is my experience and as always - YMMV. 🙂

 

[Wintersdark]

On 8/4/2020 at 6:14 PM, 2and3cylinders said:

As with most flash there is a choice to turn off the O2 sensor and and only run in open-loop all the time per the new maps, which is what I selected.  I'd have to have the O2 reactivated to use the Booster Plug, which likely would play havoc with the current maps. Am I incorrect, or can a new flash compensation / work in harmony with the BP?

Inquiring minds need to know*

*for you non-US folks, that was a tagline of our National Inquirer rumor - bogus news rag

It can, but you'd be better off simply adding idle and low rpm fuel to the flash itself IMHO.  Just have them run it 6% richer on idle/minimal throttle and call it a day.  You COULD use the BoosterPlug, but without the O2 sensor running you'd be running 6% richer all the time instead of just at idle/low rpm.  That'll make a significant impact on fuel economy, and may cause problems if the flash I'd already so what rich.

In short, if you're flashing your ECU, you're better off getting a flash that does everything you want rather than mixing and matching more hacky solutions.

On 8/4/2020 at 5:57 PM, Stew said:

Which is exactly what I was after. Incredibly impressed with the service from the Booster Plug people, ordered yesterday, being delivered on Thursday (free shipping) , USA to Scotland, that is amazing.
Hopefully I'll get it fitted over the weekend, (weather here at the moment is vile) and will keep you posted as to what difference I feel from it.
 

The BoosterPlug guys are in Denmark, iirc!  But yeah, was the same for me, I think 4 days, free shipping, Denmark to Canada.  I've been on a few longer rides with mine, and I'm really falling in love.  It's SO MUCH NICER in a group when riding slowly.  So much more settled and tame, *and* more bite when you yank on the throttle.

17 hours ago, dazzler24 said:

I asked the same question regarding whether I still needed it after an ECU flash but was 'assured' I did because the "open loop /closed loop" are separate when it comes to fueling.... what this means exactly I don't pretend to understand.

I did look into it but I've had a lot of drinks since then and can't remember the details! 😉

FWIW and for my experience - I have the O2 controller installed and the ECU flash done/provided by the same man (Kevin Hope (KevXTX)) and my 2015 bike is as smooth as silk - oh, I did the APS adjustment as well which I found to have quite an effect.

As stated, this is my experience and as always - YMMV. 🙂

 

Ok, simple explanation: Gasoline burns best at a specific air fuel mixture, and with fuel injection it's the ECU's primary job to add the correct amount of fuel to the amount of oxygen being sucked into the cylinders.  This is quite fiddly, as temperature and air pressure have a substantial impact on how much oxygen is pulled in per intake.  

In open loop mode, the ECU decides how much fuel to use by looking at the fuel map(a grid of throttle positions vs rpm), then adding more/less fuel fuel for temperature and air pressure (cold air is denser, for example, so you need more fuel).  And that's it, fuel map + situation modifiers.  The ECU does *not* know how rich or lean it's running though, just that it's doing what it's supposed to for the current situation.  The bike runs like this at idle, under partial throttle, and under hard acceleration.  

In contrast, once you're at more steady speeds, cruising, under throttle, the bike moves to closed loop mode.  It looks at the fuel map (big grid of throttle position vs rpm), adds fuel, then looks at what the O2 sensor says.  It uses the output from the O2 sensor to determine how the engine is running, (air fuel mixture wise) and adds or removes fuel to subsequent injections to get it where it wants the air fuel mixture to be.  This method results in "optimal" performance and fuel economy while cruising.  It's disabled in some flashes however to force the bike to run to the fuel maps rather than ignoring them once in closed loop mode.  The problem is (in my experience) most flashes can't change the target Air Fuel Mixture, so if it goes into closed loop mode, it's fueling as per the manufacturer's settings which are heavily influenced by environmental regulations and thus kind of lean, to burn cleaner.

It can't use the O2 sensor under changing conditions (sudden acceleration, idle, etc) because there's a lag time between fuel injection and results from the O2 sensor.  

[Wintersdark]

On 8/3/2020 at 7:41 PM, nhchris said:

I ride a rural road in NH on which most every corner has a directional arrow and recommended speed posted.  

Game is to double the suggested corner speeds if safely possible while staying in your lane. 

The suggested 15 & 20 mph corners are easy to double.  The suggested 35 mph corners demand a lot more attention and technique.

It's a totally different experience than cruising it in the family sedan and a lot more tiring!

With the groups I ride with, this is the normal way to go: Estimated corner speed is twice whatever is posted.  It works surprisingly well.  You can do more, but 2x posted is pretty easy even for a very mixed group.  

My experience has kind of been the opposite of yours in the US at least, anyways.  There's this winding road up the mountains on north side of Lewiston, here:

Google Maps

---

Idaho

 Those 15mph switchbacks are not easy to do at 30mph.  Silly fun road to ride, though, scraped all kinds of hard parts getting up here:

 

but on the other hand, the 35+ mph corners are pretty trivial.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Wintersdark

[nhchris]

We are short on switch backs here in NH, although there are a few.

They do demand special technique and god help you if you are in the wrong gear on the entry going up..

Good practice for that trip to the Alps.