Rear tire losing pressure, dealer stumped

[2linby]

Hang a brass bell on the bike. You have gremlins dude! :)!

[2linby]

Just now, 2linby said:

Hang a brass bell on the bike. You have gremlins dude! :)!

Check the cheap things first!

1) Pull the Schrader valve, (Not the stem) clean the inside of the valve stem with a Schrader valve tool and replace with a brand new Schrader valve (easily purchased at a auto parts store). 

2) Over inflate the tire (50 psi) and do the partial submerge test. You can do this with the tie mounted, bike on the center stand. 

3) Pull the tire and use a very high intensity light to examine both the inside and outside including the bead. Make sure there are zero foreign objects and check the nature of the build of the tie. If there are any irregularities its manufacture. Replace the entire valve stem with a new metal one with rubber gaskets-fittings. 

4) Clean the inside of the rim bead seat with a scrubbing pad and hand check for any abnormalities including any out of round condition. IF you have perform a run out test, both radially and axial. Tolerance shouldn't be out more the a couple thousands at worst. The manual may have specs on this. 

5) With that same light check the rim for any abnormalities. There could be a hair line crack that potentially is causing this

6) Purchase a can of Ride-on tire sealant if everything else fails. 

7) AND! if the Ride-on fails. it's time for a a new tire. IF it fails again, its time for a new rim If it fails again Buy a brass bell, you have gremlins due.

Just now, 2linby said:

Hang a brass bell on the bike. You have gremlins dude! :)!

 

[roadrash83]

I had the same problem with the front tire (Dunlop) on my new 2010 Goldwing from the day I took it home. Some nights it would lose 2psi other nights 6psi or more. The dealer tanked the the tire, removed and remounted the tire and finally replaced the valve stem which included the tire pressure monitor if I remember correctly. They could not find any leaks but they knew the tire leaked by the pressure drop the tire had over night when they had it ( I trust and have a very good relationship with them). Then they replaced the front and rear tire at no charge (Dunlop would not warranty it). They put on Michelins front and back so the tires matched and  that solved the problem, it also solved the handle bar shake I would get going over steel grated bridges. . Another reason I hate Dunlop tires and cant wait to get them of my bikes.

[littlebruv]

54 minutes ago, roadrash83 said:

I had the same problem with the front tire (Dunlop) on my new 2010 Goldwing from the day I took it home. Some nights it would lose 2psi other nights 6psi or more. The dealer tanked the the tire, removed and remounted the tire and finally replaced the valve stem which included the tire pressure monitor if I remember correctly. They could not find any leaks but they knew the tire leaked by the pressure drop the tire had over night when they had it ( I trust and have a very good relationship with them). Then they replaced the front and rear tire at no charge (Dunlop would not warranty it). They put on Michelins front and back so the tires matched and  that solved the problem, it also solved the handle bar shake I would get going over steel grated bridges. . Another reason I hate Dunlop tires and cant wait to get them of my bikes.

There isn't a tiny tack or carpet pin in the tyre ? they are hard to see, don't always show bubbles if the wheel is tanked as the pin can reseal the hole in the tyre when reflated. I had this problem recently on a car tyre

[2linby]

1 hour ago, roadrash83 said:

IThen they replaced the front and rear tire at no charge (Dunlop would not warranty it). They put on Michelins front and back so the tires matched and  that solved the problem, it also solved the handle bar shake I would get going over steel grated bridges. . Another reason I hate Dunlop tires and cant wait to get them of my bikes.

That's a great dealership to support!  I too have (overtime) learned to love Michelins way over Dunlops and I too cannot wait till the dunlop's wear out. In fact I just talked myself into getting a new Michelins PR front because I truly hate the way the Dunlop feels.

Edited September 20, 2020 by 2linby

[roadrash83]

3 hours ago, littlebruv said:

There isn't a tiny tack or carpet pin in the tyre ? they are hard to see, don't always show bubbles if the wheel is tanked as the pin can reseal the hole in the tyre when reflated. I had this problem recently on a car tyre

  The bike was fresh out of the crate when I took delivery of the bike. The TPS light came on as I left the dealer and I turned around and they put air in the front and then the saga started. If the tire didn't fix the situation they were going to order a new rim. It never lost air pressure when I was riding it only when the bike sat, the longer it sat the more it lost. The bike was assembled Friday night and I picked it up Saturday morning, the guy who put air in the tire was the one who assembled the bike. He swore that he put air in the tire and I watched him replace the schrader valve when he put air in it. I was very impressed with how sensitive the TPS was on the bike. 

[stumpy]

@ecognomeist   well any word yet?

[ecognomeist]

Really grateful for all the advice, and thanks for checking in @stumpy. I wish I could say the mystery is solved.

I finally had some time to look into this again over the weekend. I inflated the tire to about 40psi and sprayed both the tire and valve stem generously with soapy water. I was not able to detect any bubbling. But it's still losing pressure- down to 25psi today.

My plan now is to start working down @2linby's list, although I admit to being a bit a newbie when it comes to maintenance- I don't have a ton of confidence or a ton of tools. But some of these things seem pretty straightforward and I'm game to learn.

[peteinpa]

STILL?? pull that wheel, fill the bathtub, dunk it.  15 psi in 24 hrs you will find it!

Don't ignore that the rim might be cracked.

 

[daboo]

1 hour ago, peteinpa said:

STILL?? pull that wheel, fill the bathtub, dunk it.  15 psi in 24 hrs you will find it!

Don't ignore that the rim might be cracked.

 

I'm reading through this and thinking the same thing.  This is potentially dangerous.  That amount of leakage...during a ride???  Not just sitting in your garage?  Not one of those people at the dealership would put up with this on their own bike.  And you shouldn't either.

There are two routes you can take (and many more, actually  ).  The non-mechanical one is to start elevating this issue at the dealership...and then to Yamaha.  Everyone has a boss.  And no one wants their boss to hear how they have been treating the customer badly.  

Service managers are usually mechanics that have moved up ...but not always.  I went to an Audi dealership in Syracuse, NY to get my oil changed.  When they were done, I went out and checked the oil and the dipstick showed it was overfilled by a quart.  The "service manager" in this case was a young guy who didn't even know how to check the oil.  All he knew how to do, was to take service orders.  He checked with the mechanic who said it was fine.  I told them I wasn't leaving till the oil level was made right.  They took care of it.  

So take it back.  If the service manager tells you that there's no problem, ask to speak to the owner.  If neither will help, ask for the name and number of the regional Yamaha representative.  You shouldn't have any problems.

 

The other route, is to do a couple things yourself.  YouTube is your friend.  Someone out there has a video showing you every step of taking your wheel off the bike and putting it back on.  You might have to look at a couple videos, but it is all right in front of you.  The hardest part of this whole process is to pick up the tools.  It goes pretty easy after that.

This isn't rocket science.  The air is held in there by the wheel on one side, the tire on the other side and the bead where the two parts meet.  You put air in through the valve stem.  That's about it.  One of those is leaking.  This is a brand new bike, straight out of the crate, so you don't have to worry about things like corrosion on the wheel rim.

The easiest thing to do, is to check the valve stem for a leak.  Fill the tire to about 45-50 psi.  Enough that air has a lot of pressure on the inside and will be leaking rapidly.  Put some spit over the valve stem.  Sit back and wait.  If it is leaking, you'll see your spit start to bubble up.  If you don't see anything, depress the valve stem momentarily and reapply a good amount of spit again.

If that doesn't show a leak, then the only place you could have a leak is in the tire, at the bead, or in the wheel itself.

Take off the wheel.  Put it in the bathtub and get enough water in there to cover all the way up to the "spokes"...probably about 9 inches at least.  You want to make sure every part of that wheel/tire that is holding air is submerged.  Make sure you still have about 50 psi in the tire.  With that much air loss in 24 hours, you should have a steady stream of bubbles coming out.  You'll probably want to turn the tire around 180 degrees to make sure you haven't missed anything.  

Don't take it out till you find the leak.  It's there.

It's easy to do a quick check on the tire itself and say that all is good.  But you could also have a cracked rim...which would be very dangerous.  Rare, but possible.  Also, having the tire bead torn, could cause a leak like that too.  And if there's a crack or tear that leaks that much air already, what would happen if in the middle of a turn at high speeds, the forces on that tire/wheel cause whatever it is to get worse?  You'd be contacting your insurance agent from your hospital bed.

Chris

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by daboo

[2and3cylinders]

Oy Veh!

So much to do about nothing LOL

If you have a rear pit stand you may be able to get it high enough to get some type of tub or even take a cardboard box and put a plastic bag in it in duct tape it around the box and fill it with water once it's under the wheel. 50 lb minimum you can take the valve stem cap off 2 don't worry about damaging the Schrader valve cuz you're going to be changing it anyway.

Easy peasy can of corn as they say on the farm!

 

[2linby]

8 hours ago, ecognomeist said:

Before you start tearing into the tire. Pressure it up to 50 psi. Nothing higher please!  Place a tub deep enough under the tire/wheel so the entire valve stem is under water with out the cap on. See if it is leaking. If it is a rubber valve stem press against it in multiple directions to see if it starts leaking. 

My plan now is to start working down @2linby's list, although I admit to being a bit a newbie when it comes to maintenance- I don't have a ton of confidence or a ton of tools. But some of these things seem pretty straightforward and I'm game to learn.

 

[stumpy]

On 10/19/2020 at 11:08 AM, ecognomeist said:

Really grateful for all the advice, and thanks for checking in @stumpy. I wish I could say the mystery is solved.

I finally had some time to look into this again over the weekend. I inflated the tire to about 40psi and sprayed both the tire and valve stem generously with soapy water. I was not able to detect any bubbling. But it's still losing pressure- down to 25psi today.

My plan now is to start working down @2linby's list, although I admit to being a bit a newbie when it comes to maintenance- I don't have a ton of confidence or a ton of tools. But some of these things seem pretty straightforward and I'm game to learn.

so did you have a bath with your rear wheel yet?   lol...  just hanging by a thread waiting for your conclusion. 

[Coop]

Move the valve stem around to check it for leaks.

[bwringer]

On 11/8/2020 at 11:54 PM, Coop said:

Move the valve stem around to check it for leaks.

Yep, poke the valve stem. I've seen a few that actually sealed OK when you're just looking, but start hissing if you poke them. Valve stems can also move at highway speed and leak rapidly.

Edited February 9, 2021 by bwringer