OEM tires, why the fuss?

[fjray]

On 1/24/2021 at 9:13 AM, koth442 said:

Tire feel is a VERY subjective thing. Some people don't like the feel more than others. Personally, I ran them dead. 

Makes sense.  On my original tires my bike slid sideways in a curve with the power off, in the rain.  If they don't work for me in the rain, off they go to an early grave.

[fjray]

17 hours ago, betoney said:

 

I agree with this, for someone who just putters around back roads or commutes to work, there is no real issues with the tires or suspension, however once you pick up the pace, they can quickly get overwhelmed. 

My only real complaint with the oem tires was slipping on damp pavement, I had the back end step out on several occasions when cornering through an intersection or traffic circle, not enough to crash but probably slip 4"-6" off my line - enough to raise the pucker factor when it isn't expected. 

Since switching to aftermarket tires, I have never had that happen again with any brand.

My findings exactly.  I am as cheap as anyone you'll meet, but will not use tires I feel might put me on my keister. I kept the take off for a while figuring if I found someone in a bind, they could have my original and I'd even help them mount it.  Then I decided if it wasn't good enough for me, I'm not giving them to anyone else.  And I was an advocate of less than the stickiest rubber going for more life on my VFR. I'll probably go to a less sticky longer mileage tire on the FJ once I start riding with slower friends.  Which I hope doesn't happen for years.

[betoney]

7 hours ago, fjray said:

 I'll probably go to a less sticky longer mileage tire on the FJ once I start riding with slower friends.  Which I hope doesn't happen for years.

I am almost at the end of the tread life on my 9th set of tires on this bike (4 years/ 53k miles), I alternate between Sport and S/T tires depending on time of year and whether I have a road trip coming up.  Nothing wrong with S/T tires, but this bike just feels so good running Sport tires on twisty mountain and canyon roads.  😎👍

[WKE002]

i did not believe that a Made in Japan Dunlop D222 is bad, i slip a few times during wet corner(here in our tropical climate, if not hot, its rain + pebbles), than given other comment here, plunge to a Michelin Road 5, afterall my tires is still new,  was able to sell 30% of Road5 cost and paid 70% which i think was worth it. than try a few times on wet road, the same manner i did with Dunlop and there were no slip. push a bit harder and that too no slip (fyg, am no pro but push corner to the bravest i could). 

its a very individualized debate which i agreed, but that is based on my experienced. at 60kg weight, that could also be the reason, if am heavier, maybe i wont feel the slip. 

 

[1moreroad]

I think the cheaper Dunlops - 222s, newer Roadsmart 2s - are as good as any sport or ST tire circa 2003 or 4. I seem to slip about as frequently as I remember doing back then (although back then without the benefit of TC).  I don't slip or activate TC or ABS on pavement on the most modern Dunlops. 

I happen to like the Dunlop profile so I've tended to use the brand the most often. 

[fjray]

On 1/24/2021 at 7:12 AM, johnmark101 said:

The stock Dunlop D222's on this bike are decent.  I don't know why people gripe about them.  Chucking them off before they are worn out is a waste of money.  Yes,  the tires you can get in the aftermarket are better but the OEM tires are not bad.  I rode them pretty aggressively and they performed well with plenty of grip for deep lean angles at speed.  Had no issues keeping up with the local sport bike riders in the twisties.  Once they were worn out I replaced them with Dunlop Roadsmarts.  Last couple of sets have been Metzeler M7 RR since I was able to get them for cheap.  

Just for fun I am thinking about running a set of the Pirelli Rosso Corsa 2 this summer.  I know they will not last but they are incredible performance tires and will allow me to really explore the limits of this bikes handling with added confidence.  After that I will probably stick with sport touring tires.   

I know you would like the Bridgestone  Battle Ax S22's then. 

[johnmark101]

1 hour ago, fjray said:

I know you would like the Bridgestone  Battle Ax S22's then. 

Yes, I probably would like them.  In fact, since wearing out the OEM tires I have not yet tried what I would consider a sport oriented tire.  I ran a set of Roadsmart 3, which I liked pretty well but never felt good about pushing them hard in the corners.  They performed their intended purpose very well and were good in all sorts of conditions, while still allowing me a bit of fun in the twisties without going bald inside of 3000 miles.

After the Roadsmart 3 I started running Metzeler M7RR because I was getting them for a very good price and they had decent reviews on line.  They are a bit slow to warm up but grip better than the Roadsmart 3 and are still decent in the wet.  Still not a proper sport tire but seems to fall between sport and sport touring......a nice compromise.  

Now I am ready for something with more feel and grip, and will try a proper sport oriented tire next.  Should be fun!!!

 

 

[Wintersdark]

On 1/26/2021 at 10:09 AM, 1moreroad said:

I think the cheaper Dunlops - 222s, newer Roadsmart 2s - are as good as any sport or ST tire circa 2003 or 4. I seem to slip about as frequently as I remember doing back then (although back then without the benefit of TC).  I don't slip or activate TC or ABS on pavement on the most modern Dunlops. 

I happen to like the Dunlop profile so I've tended to use the brand the most often. 

It's really important to remember that the stock D222's are *not* the same as D222's purchased over the counter.  Stock tires are almost always cheaper versions, as the F9 video earlier discussed.

---

But yeah, as I've said in other threads, they're ok tires and actually even decent, if you're a fair weather rider. 

The major problem with the stick D222's is that they're utter garbage in cold weather and rain.  Like @fjray above, for me that's a "hard no" moment.  It doesn't rain often here, but I ride in sub zero temps regularly.  The D222's warm up slowly at the best of times, and never get good grip when cold.  While I run my winters through the meat of the winter, spring and fall see huge temperature swings here.

So mine came off for my winters shortly after I bought the bike.  I went from spinning the rear on a hard launch on a wet road to being able to wheelie.

Once off, there didn't seem much point in putting them back on, so I sold them for half the price of a new set of Road 5's which where objectively superior tires in every situation.

 

So yeah, if you're a summer/fair weather rider, they're perfectly adequate tires, so I wouldn't worry about it.  If you ride in rain, either be very cautious or swap them.  It's really easy to sell lightly used tires in our sizes.  

 

Also, totally subjective, but I don't like how Dunlop's feel.  That isn't a criticism, just a preference.  I'd have kept them if not for the bad wet/cold grip, though.

[Clem Fandango]

I live in Oregon's Willamette Valley, where we get just a bit of rain and ride year round.  No real complaints on the OEMs, but then I'm no internet GP racer.  Of course finding a superior aftermarket replacement isn't hard, but not wearing the factory rubber out before replacing them is just a waste of money IMO.

[fjray]

3 minutes ago, Clem Fandango said:

I live in Oregon's Willamette Valley, where we get just a bit of rain and ride year round.  No real complaints on the OEMs, but then I'm no internet GP racer.  Of course finding a superior aftermarket replacement isn't hard, but not wearing the factory rubber out before replacing them is just a waste of money IMO.

I say it's cheaper taking the rim protectors off than purchasing new bodywork, for both me and the bike. Plus I hate pain, and not riding.  You should use yours up if you want to. 

[fddriver2]

After 40 years of street riding. I have found that we break down into 4 very vague groups of people. 

Cruisers. Just because you ain't on a HD doesn't mean you ain't a "cruiser".  People just out and about having fun. Never really pushing it.

Riders. People who spend a good bit of time on their bikes. Can and sometimes do go fast and push it a bit. But mostly don't.

Pushers. Young (mostly) riding the latest go fast bikes (mostly) always pushing it. With varying degrees of success/survival.

Pro's/Trackday's. Many/most of these people are truly fast. They can outrun you on almost anything. Their opinions on how to go fast should be listened to. 

Their opinions on tires should be taken in the context of the projected usage. 

As always YMMV

  

[fjray]

11 hours ago, fddriver2 said:

After 40 years of street riding. I have found that we break down into 4 very vague groups of people. 

Cruisers. Just because you ain't on a HD doesn't mean you ain't a "cruiser".  People just out and about having fun. Never really pushing it.

Riders. People who spend a good bit of time on their bikes. Can and sometimes do go fast and push it a bit. But mostly don't.

Pushers. Young (mostly) riding the latest go fast bikes (mostly) always pushing it. With varying degrees of success/survival.

Pro's/Trackday's. Many/most of these people are truly fast. They can outrun you on almost anything. Their opinions on how to go fast should be listened to. 

Their opinions on tires should be taken in the context of the projected usage. 

As always YMMV

  You got it! 

[Wintersdark]

5 hours ago, fddriver2 said:

After 40 years of street riding. I have found that we break down into 4 very vague groups of people. 

Cruisers. Just because you ain't on a HD doesn't mean you ain't a "cruiser".  People just out and about having fun. Never really pushing it.

Riders. People who spend a good bit of time on their bikes. Can and sometimes do go fast and push it a bit. But mostly don't.

Pushers. Young (mostly) riding the latest go fast bikes (mostly) always pushing it. With varying degrees of success/survival.

Pro's/Trackday's. Many/most of these people are truly fast. They can outrun you on almost anything. Their opinions on how to go fast should be listened to. 

Their opinions on tires should be taken in the context of the projected usage. 

As always YMMV

  

Old, pushy rider 😃  Spend a tremendous amount of time on my bike, year round, and definitely do like to go fast and carve up twisties.  I've still got all my me (mostly) after 25 years of that, so... *shrugs* Successfully, I guess.  At least thus far. 

I'm really with you here in regards to people talking about how grippy tires are, and that what people say is always going to be within the context of how they use them.

But in this particular case, I feel it's important to highlight the D222's poor wet performance.  It's just a thing with them, and it's not really subjective.  They're really bad in the rain and cold.  I suppose if you're a particularly relaxed "cruiser" rider, maybe that's ok, but you don't need to ride hard or "push" at all on the stockers in the rain (or on cold pavement) to lose grip, even straight line.  I found even at speed-limit cruising they'd slip about, and road lines felt like they were covered in oil.  When it's below freezing(and dry - no ice) they'd slip on 90 degree turns through intersections.  That of course doesn't really matter if you're a fair weather rider though.

So it's not just "what type of rider are you?" it's "What conditions are you going to ride in?" as well.

I mean, maybe I got a set that were unusually bad, but it seems others have also experienced really poor wet performance, so there's that too.  I'm not "track day guy" picky about tires.  For me, Road 5's get me sufficient grip that I'm very happy.  I'm aware that I could get more out of proper sport tires instead of all-weather sport touring tires, but they're good enough for my riding in the summer but most importantly they don't let me down if the weather isn't ideal.  

There's two things on my bikes that I am uncompromising on in terms of safety.  Brakes, and tires.  Neither need to be the best, but both need to be able to work as well as possible in the worst conditions I'm willing to ride in.  Because I don't need the absolute best grip on a nice summer day, I'm not pushing that hard.  But my tires being able to stop me fast in the rain when someone pulls out in front of me is quite possibly the difference between going home after a ride or going to the hospital.  Or the grave.

[fddriver2]

@Wintersdark "Projected usage"  My usage is South Florida commuting and mostly short trips to lunch (Less than 200 miles round trip for the day) and 2-3 road trips a year to the mountains. SOFLA is flat and straight. So. My tires square off long before the sides are done. What we do have is rain, lots of rain. Here in the "Sunshine State" all summer long we have thunderstorms, typhoons really, that last from 5 minutes to 25 minutes. So I have a good understanding of what a well preforming rain tire/tyre is. Most of us down here do. What I don't know is what is a good track tire/tyre is. Never done a track day. At this late stage of life I'm not likely to. ☹️

After all that. Tire/tyre threads are like oil threads. We all have opinions on what makes a good/great tire/tyre. But we almost never agree. 😀

[chitown]

Like plans and getting punched in the face... everybody has a projected usage until they're doing a panic stop. Creating some sort of equivalency between tires and suspension upgrades and how fast someone intends to go is something that comes up on the internet a lot and IMO is ignorance. Speed doesn't kill, rapid deceleration does.

One can never ever exceed the posted limits and still be highly skilled and experienced. You (yes all of you) can scrape a peg at parking lot speeds and do a stoppy from surface street speeds.

When I buy a new Japanese bike tires and suspension are just part of the cost -- but it wasn't always that way. Experience, feel, etc.

Developing a feel for tires is something some will just never have the experience or talent to achieve. And there will always be some that have more experience and talent than just about all of us here. Welcome to the internet.