Front wheel noise

[Lone Wolf]

Wow you really did a lot of work cleaning up the calipers.

6 hours ago, petshark said:

... the snow is frozen solid... For now I should probably stop speculating until I can test-ride again. The weather forecast predicts sub zero temperatures as far as it can see (8+ days) which means that all this frozen snow, road salt and muck on the roads is here to stay.

Yuk. At least you can work on the chain. 

1 hour ago, peteinpa said:

Going back to the Jake video, you can see the dirt lines on the pistons. He does no cleaning and shoves them in.

...Fz07 calipers seem the same as ours.

Agreed. Jake was sloppy on the pistons. The FZ07 calipers are similar in the arrangement of 4 pistons, but they are not the same. The Tracer has Radial mount calipers, FZ07 are not.

Usually I think of the MASTER cylinder in terms of "radial" but the term applies to calipers as well. Ari Henning explains it well in this article, and corresponding video:

"What we’re discussing when we talk about radial or axial brakes is how the calipers are mounted to the fork. Radial calipers are secured via bolts that are parallel with the brake disc, whereas axial brakes are held in place by bolts that are perpendicular to the disc."

MC Garage Video: Radial Motorcycle Brakes Explained

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The general consensus is that radial brakes are the best. But...

 

[petshark]

17 hours ago, peteinpa said:

If you push 1 piston out just short of all the way you can turn it in its bore to clean all around.

That's exactly what I did. Glad to hear that this is not frowned upon. 😅

21 hours ago, ASerio said:

hey guys, talked to a mechanic few days ago,  he says that the noise we hear are the front flutuating discs that get some freeplay,   what you guys think of it ? 

it is one of the possible sounds that can come from the wheel. No idea if this is the sound that mine makes though. (see video in first post)

Those bobbins between the floating rotors seem pretty tight to me. I cannot turn them by hand.

Edited February 9, 2021 by petshark

[ASerio]

18 minutes ago, petshark said:

That's exactly what I did. Glad to hear that this is not frowned upon. 😅

it is one of the possible sounds that can come from the wheel. No idea it this the sound that mine makes though. (see video in first post)

Those bobbins between the floating rotors seem pretty tight to me. I cannot turn them by hand.

that is exactly wht i've told him,  but he told me to watch the tyre move, as the disc gave 1/2mm, as he hold the brake and push the front,  and the thing realy moves...in my case it seems to be that 

[Toddtr]

I installed those pads on my bike and for about 50 miles they did the same with tightness and very noisy as well. Now all good, still a little noisy but nothing like when new, satisfied with the extra stopping power

[petshark]

1 hour ago, ASerio said:

that is exactly wht i've told him,  but he told me to watch the tyre move, as the disc gave 1/2mm, as he hold the brake and push the front,  and the thing realy moves...in my case it seems to be that 

Interesting! Does your wheel makes the same sound as mine?

 

12 minutes ago, Toddtr said:

I installed those pads on my bike and for about 50 miles they did the same with tightness and very noisy as well. Now all good, still a little noisy but nothing like when new, satisfied with the extra stopping power

The thing is that I have them on mine for about 500 miles and a few days ago I suddenly felt unwanted braking while riding. But I guess it’s possible that the piston seals seized because of the brake cleaner, and while troubleshooting and repositioning everything I am now back in the same situation as with new discs: I suspect I need to bed them in again (which is what happened with yours after 50 miles)

[petshark]

Cleaned and lubed the chain and waiting for the ice to melt to test the brake situation.

But meanwhile I've had an interesting suggestion about the wheel noise. A balance bead that has come loose? I didn't even know those existed.

This is the video again but uncut. I recorded the sound from three different locations and in the OP only posted the middle one. Turns out the last one is louder with the microphone near the fender. This is all just the sound traveling through the metal and bolts as I can hear the noise when the wheel is off the bike as well but very faint. But who knows perhaps someone recognizes it better this way. Worth a shot. The link should start the video from the third (loudest) spin.

 

[skipperT]

The metallic “ting” is definitely the spacer located between the bearings bouncing around.

is the wheel on its factory equipped axle in the above video? Is it installed on some kind of stand?

the spacer should cease rotating and not make sounds when wheel is clamped and torqued properly within the fork tubes. 
 

-Skip

[Lone Wolf]

On 2/5/2021 at 4:44 PM, petshark said:

... perhaps the EBC HH pads had more drag.

Interesting thread on FZ09 forum, confirming more noise from EBC HH pads. He can spin his wheel and get 2 or 3 rotations.

Do ebc hh pads drag a little more? | Yamaha FZ-09 Forum

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Hey all just did a brake change on a new to me fz and it was...

 

[Ride365]

Other threads on motorcycle forums complaining of EBC HH pads rubbing excessively on rotors, switch to another HH pad from lets say Galfer and no more rubbing.

[petshark]

12 hours ago, Ride365 said:

Other threads on motorcycle forums complaining of EBC HH pads rubbing excessively on rotors, switch to another HH pad from lets say Galfer and no more rubbing.

Took everything apart again yesterday and again got the same result; 1/2 turn maximum free spin but I could see this being unobtrusive while riding while in the OP there probably was a slight issue with one of the pistons causing even more drag.

I have good hopes that this part may be solved but still waiting on the ice to melt. I will certainly look at Galfers for my next set, weird that they are so popular if this is a thing. Mind you, if it hadn't gotten so bad that I felt the brakes dragging so much I probably wouldn't have cared.

19 hours ago, skipperT said:

The metallic “ting” is definitely the spacer located between the bearings bouncing around.

is the wheel on its factory equipped axle in the above video? Is it installed on some kind of stand?

the spacer should cease rotating and not make sounds when wheel is clamped and torqued properly within the fork tubes. 
 

-Skip

Hi Skip, thank you for the suggestion. This post sent me off to the garage in nighttime freezing temperatures to put this theory to the test. 😅 Actually I got a delivery that same day of my new "large" torque wrench so I was eager to try it out.

Let me first say that the video you saw was the front wheel as it was installed by the dealer after a tire change before I bought it. So I had no reason to think that the torque might be off. But when I took the wheel out last time I did not check if there was any way to reproduce the sound without spinning the wheel. I also wanted to check if the rotor bobbins might be responsible so off it went.

Unfortunately I did not find anything. After all kinds of tests and torquing the axle to 65 Nm as per the service manual it still makes exactly the same sound as in the video. With the wheel off the bike I still feel both bearings turning smooth with exactly the same resistance. The spacer that sits in between is pretty snug even without being clamped. I was not able to move it much with my finger. I could push it from side to side but only minimally. I could not find any way to make the wheel make any sound without spinning it. I bounced the wheel on the ground and shook it above my head. It probably looked like a weird wheel worship-ritual but the wheel gods were not listening.

I also laid the wheel down and push/pulled the rotors and all bobbins have free play but not so much that they make a sound. It takes a decent amount of force.

Edited February 11, 2021 by petshark
spelling

[Buggy Nate]

You definitely have a spacer on both sides of the wheel?

Only one of the above photos is clear. With the calipers off and the wheel bolted up it should be absolutely silent when spun.

If not you need to sort the issue out  before bothering to bolt the calipers on.

I don’t believe you have a brake issue at all, more like a missing wheel spacers or bearing issue.

I have just fit a pair of the Ebc HH pads to my own bike and they do not have any more drag than stock pads. Only more friction when applied.

Please make sure this get sorted before it is ridden as it sounds absolutely horrible and I’d hate to see some sort of accident happen.

 

[petshark]

59 minutes ago, Buggy Nate said:

You definitely have a spacer on both sides of the wheel?

Only one of the above photos is clear. With the calipers off and the wheel bolted up it should be absolutely silent when spun.

If not you need to sort the issue out  before bothering to bolt the calipers on.

I don’t believe you have a brake issue at all, more like a missing wheel spacers or bearing issue.

I have just fit a pair of the Ebc HH pads to my own bike and they do not have any more drag than stock pads. Only more friction when applied.

Please make sure this get sorted before it is ridden as it sounds absolutely horrible and I’d hate to see some sort of accident happen.

 

Thank you for caring about my safety.  Yes, there are spacers on both sides of the wheel. They are not in the picture because I tried to show the seal and the bearing: one picture is focused on the seal and the other on the shaft. When installed the wheel sits absolutely snug and there is no movement possible except spinning smoothly on the axle.

I've been putting off buying new bearings because all tests indicate that there is nothing wrong with them and they only have 5000 miles on them. The sounds are also only heard and not felt through the frame. Whatever it is, it is something very small and light but the sound is amplified through the axle to the fork when torqued tight. When spinning free with the axle resting on two stands you almost can't hear it but it's still there. You can't feel any vibration as you would with a bad bearing, nor is there any play on the bearing.

But I guess the only way to exclude the bearings as the source is to install new ones.

Another thing to try is getting the tire of the rim and see if there is perhaps something inside but I don't have the tools for that yet.

[Buggy Nate]

When you turn the bearings with your fingers do they feel smooth? They should not have any grinding or notchiness to them at all. For the 20-30 bucks to replace them I would. They are the only component the front wheel spins on.

[draco_1967]

Is there something inside the tire? Or maybe in the center hub area (between where the spokes attach and where the bearings are? That would account for the "irregularness" of the sound when you spin the wheel without the calipers.

[peteinpa]

I just thought of something. The hollow area at the cast hub. Might be something foreign in there.

Edited February 11, 2021 by peteinpa