Supporting Member betoney Posted April 5, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted April 5, 2020 12 hours ago, whitecrow said: Well I drilled 10 3/16 size holes in my baffle and it definitely is louder. So my question is would JB weld hold up to the heat if I wanted to fill a few holes? If you don't like the sound you could JB Weld a coin of the appropriate size to the back side of the baffle. Did you ride it out on the road? What was your impression after drilling the holes? 1 ***2015 Candy Red FJ-09*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitecrow Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 2 hours ago, betoney said: If you don't like the sound you could JB Weld a coin of the appropriate size to the back side of the baffle. Did you ride it out on the road? What was your impression after drilling the holes? Yes I took it for out for 180 mile ride and it was definitely louder. I rode with and without ear plugs as a test and sounded louder for sure. The bike did seem to run smoother in the higher rpms and was a little more peppy at higher speeds. I’ll probably just fill one or two holes at time till I feel like I can find the balance of peppy and not stupid loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member betoney Posted April 5, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted April 5, 2020 18 minutes ago, whitecrow said: Yes I took it for out for 180 mile ride and it was definitely louder. I rode with and without ear plugs as a test and sounded louder for sure. The bike did seem to run smoother in the higher rpms and was a little more peppy at higher speeds. I’ll probably just fill one or two holes at time till I feel like I can find the balance of peppy and not stupid loud. It's interesting that you found it definitely louder. I too rode with and without earplugs, I was actually hoping it might be just a tad louder but I couldn't tell even a little difference. 🤷♀️ Oh well, the bike runs great as is, so I'm leaving it alone. I have never ridden with the baffle completely out but might try it one day just out of curiosity to see how it affects the fueling. 1 ***2015 Candy Red FJ-09*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member piotrek Posted April 9, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted April 9, 2020 On 2/27/2020 at 5:44 AM, BBB said: ...the bike makes less power than standard as it cannot flow the exhaust gas fast enough. He has raised this with Scorpion, but they have designed it this way to make it EC compliant (homologated). His suggestion was to drill some holes in the end of the baffle... Wow... is this for real? Did your re-flash account for the holes in the baffle? Hard to believe that this baffle would be more restrictive than the OE can with the catalytic converter, but maybe. I recall that @betoney had his ECU re-flashed by 2WDW for the Scorpion... wonder what their dyno charts would show. I recall a very favourable review then. I do have a 3/16 bit that looks bored. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member betoney Posted April 9, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted April 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, piotrek said: I do have a 3/16 bit that looks bored. DO IT!!! 😈 2 ***2015 Candy Red FJ-09*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member piotrek Posted April 10, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted April 10, 2020 On 4/8/2020 at 9:38 PM, betoney said: DO IT!!! 😈 Tempted... and on stand-by... but it reminds me a little bit of the air box foam surround mod... 😛 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 On 4/9/2020 at 2:31 AM, piotrek said: Wow... is this for real? Did your re-flash account for the holes in the baffle? Hard to believe that this baffle would be more restrictive than the OE can with the catalytic converter, but maybe. I recall that @betoney had his ECU re-flashed by 2WDW for the Scorpion... wonder what their dyno charts would show. I recall a very favourable review then. I do have a 3/16 bit that looks bored. I don’t think there’s a straight forward answer that @piotrek, at least not one that I can give 🤪, but I’ll try to give you my logic for you to examine. Scorpion say explicitly that changing to their exhaust meets EU regulations and there is no need to have any fuelling adjustments. Part of that is a noise regulation so they have to fit a baffle to ensure they’re under the upper limit (82-86 dB in the UK). That no fuelling changes are needed must mean that it can accommodate an O2 sensor and that the air flow characteristics must be roughly the same as the OEM exhaust with the catalyst in. In other words, with the baffle in, the exhaust is just nicer to look at, lighter and deeper, but not much louder than OEM. As far as I understand it, and I freely admit this could be way off base, the ECU Woolwich flash does a few things related to fuelling. It ignores the input from the O2 sensor (mine is completely gone and plugged up) so the closed loop part of the control is gone and there is a smoother ride as the fuelling is not going up and down in response to the O2 sensor, and the switch from closed to open loop mode. The ECU is therefore in permanent open loop and just reads the amount of fuel to input, according to the other sensors (presumably the air pressure sensors, APS etc) and the new map. This allows the tuner to allow a richer fuel mix as he is no longer constrained by having to meet stringent emissions regulations. So far so good, but there are two things I’m unsure about. Do our bikes have some form of air-flow sensor (either AFM or MAF) ? If they do, it’s easy to see how drilling holes in the baffle would increase exhaust flow, therefore increasing air flow and the fuel map would sense this and input more fuel, hence more power overall. If there isn’t an air-flow sensor then the ECU map may simply be running rich with the restricted baffle and drilling the baffle may allow more airflow which then puts us back in the correct stoichiometric ratio for good fuelling. My tuner asked which exhaust I had, then casually mentioned that there would be a benefit from drilling out the baffle. I didn’t think it through too much and just got jiggy with the drill. Prior to the reflash I certainly felt that the exhaust fuelling was off/lumpy. Unfortunately I didn’t do the flash, ride, then drill, I did both things together (and a K&N filter) so proper correlation with changes isn’t possible for me. Ah well, I certainly have no regrets from making the holes. It would be interesting for you to try it piotrek and give us your impressions. 1 Red 2015 Tracer, UK spec (well, it was until I started messing with it...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member piotrek Posted April 10, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, BBB said: Unfortunately I didn’t do the flash, ride, then drill, I did both things together (and a K&N filter) so proper correlation with changes isn’t possible for me. Ah well, I certainly have no regrets from making the holes. It would be interesting for you to try it piotrek and give us your impressions. Weary of doing this after having the ECU re-flashed... but sometimes butt dyno don't lie. I will report back if/when I break down. I don't personally discern any particular loss or gain after the re-flash... but it's been months in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member piotrek Posted April 11, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) Food for thought... I reached out to David at Vcyclenut about his slip-on maps. He confirmed that he develops them with the baffle (db killer) removed, but that the bike should "run great" with the baffle in. Would be interesting to know how other tuners do this. I am inclined to think they only do it one way so that the maps can be as universal as possible. This could explain things a bit. 🤔 Edited April 11, 2020 by piotrek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdavis Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Was told the map is not needed if the header pipes arn't changed, acro headers are larger dia ,better overall flow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member piotrek Posted April 11, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 hour ago, jdavis said: Was told the map is not needed if the header pipes arn't changed, acro headers are larger dia ,better overall flow. WRT the Scorpion... its claim to fame was that it would not require changes to the factory map, so we're in a bit of an uncharted territory. My bike was initially flashed for OE exhaust (AIS active to save the catalytic etc.)... so maybe I should've just left things alone, save for disabling AIS. Hard to tell now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iitywygms Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Got my weekend project. Ivans ecu flash arrives Saturday too. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member piotrek Posted July 31, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, iitywygms said: Got my weekend project. Ivans ecu flash arrives Saturday too. Did he flash it for the slip-on with the baffle in? Edited July 31, 2020 by piotrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iitywygms Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 He flashed for the slipon. Did not specify baffle in or out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member betoney Posted July 31, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted July 31, 2020 22 minutes ago, iitywygms said: Got my weekend project. Ivans ecu flash arrives Saturday too. A 10 lb weight savings AND smoother fueling with the flash. Win, Win! 1 ***2015 Candy Red FJ-09*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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