Replace clutch cushions on 2015 fj09

[dazzler24]

1 hour ago, piotrek said:

Job is done. Took the bike out for a half hour ride around the neighborhood today... and I am happy to report that the racket/roughness is gone. Saved a bunch of money, so that's cool. The clutch is a bit grabby now with the stack shuffled and the clutch plates buffed dull.

I picked up guidance on torque and Threadlocker from these sources:

• Threadlocker 272 (red, high temperature), YT video re: Hinson basket kit installation. There are others.
• Bolt torque 12Nm (wet), YT video re: Extreme Creations FZ-09 basket assembly... I went 10 lb-ft.

I did not peen the bolts because the Helicoils made it awkward and I was likely to cause more harm than good. It'll be fine. 😁

The job is pretty straight forward with the right tools. I had most on hand, save for the countersink bit and the 272 Threadlocker. A couple of photos... progress and a finished product. Cushions fit very snug... helps to coat surfaces with oil.

Great job, really neat and thanks for all the info and feedback.

Questions if I may: -

1.  Did you use a drill press for all of the drilling and countersink work or did you do by hand?

2. IYHO do you think blue threadlocker would do the job instead of red or not worth the risk?

3. Specifically what 90 degree countersink did you use?

Cheers and thanks again for the write up 👍

[piotrek]

On 10/15/2023 at 9:48 PM, dazzler24 said:

Did you use a drill press for all of the drilling and countersink work or did you do by hand?

I used a drill press. I am sure it can be done using a hand tool, but the drill press is the right tool for this. I used a 1/4" bit through the rivet head, and a 1/8" round punch to drive the rivet loose.

On 10/15/2023 at 9:48 PM, dazzler24 said:

IYHO do you think blue threadlocker would do the job instead of red or not worth the risk?

I wondered this too. Hinson includes Loctite 272 in their kits, specifically for its high temp rating... so that was good enough for me. It will take some effort to disassemble, as it should I suppose. I don't expect to be doing this again for a good while. This might even become the next owner's problem. 😁

On 10/15/2023 at 9:48 PM, dazzler24 said:

Specifically what 90 degree countersink did you use?

I bought KEO 53129 at Grainger Canada (Cat#: 3P421). It wasn't too spendy. It's a tool, so never a waste. 🙂

[Ccewbj]

Can you provide source of fasteners? I sourced some low profile ones from Amz, but I'm doubtful of the quality. They're flat but have a small taper where head meets threaded portion.  I was concerned for clearance. Great job and thanks for sharing.

[piotrek]

8 hours ago, Ccewbj said:

Can you provide source of fasteners? I sourced some low profile ones from Amz, but I'm doubtful of the quality. They're flat but have a small taper where head meets threaded portion.  I was concerned for clearance.

I bought mine at Bolts Plus (local supplier). They probably get their fasteners bulk, i.e. source unknown. Bolts are stamped A2-70. I saw some low profile fasteners you mention on Amazon (these). Wiseco uses something similar (these), but I went tapered following Hinson, and the bloke from the video. You could always carve a shallow countersink in the steel plate to seat the heads properly. I highly recommend this fix. The clutch is quiet and feels tight, now that the slop is gone. Good luck.

[Ccewbj]

Thank you sir.  Indeed those are the ones I picked up. Ok...no rush with the snow about to fly here. I'll source the proper bits and dig in soon.  Cheers!

[Ccewbj]

Update. I finally got around to digging into this fix. There was no red loctite present when i removed the clutch boss bolt.  It came off fairly well thanks to the EBC clutch tool.

The heads of original screws (M6 x 1; 12 mm) I ordered were too thin (~1.3 mm) and after torquing them, it looked like they were starting to dish (pulled down).  I then ordered some others (M6 x 1; 12 mm) that had slightly thicker heads (~2.2 mm), which were closer to the thickness of the rivet heads drilled out. But these had a black oxide coating which I figured might be an issue with the loctite/heat cycles/oil...so I went as per Piotrek and ordered new screws (M6 x 1; 16 mm) and a 1/2" 90° countersink bit. Much better! You can see from the backing plate, it was moving a lot. If i did it again, I'd get longer Helicoils (3D), I'll check it after about 1000 km...looking forward to hearing the difference once it's back together....

 

[bwringer]

Innnnteresting, very interesting.

I replaced the clutch basket on my 2015 with a new one a few years ago; I dubbed the noise/vibration the "GRONK" a while back and documented that journey in another thread. My reasoning was that there was an updated part number, and perhaps it had been improved. I also did the slipper clutch upgrade before replacing the clutch basket, because the clutch basket was backordered for a few months. The slipper upgrade didn't affect the GRONK, but it was still well worth it.

After somewhere around 15,000+ miles since, hints of the GRONK may be returning... not sure yet, maybe I'm being paranoid.

If you hold the old basket and move the gear, you can get the parts to move relative to one another, so it's definitely the cushions. I might disassemble the old basket and prep for this repair as a plan "B".

This thread is old, but a couple of questions:

1) Are the Hinson cushions proving to be any more durable than whatever's in there OEM? Are there other sources of quality cushions?

2) Which Hinson kit, exactly? Is it CU216, and does it come with all eight cushions needed? I've chased this around the intarwebz quite a bit, and it's still a little unclear. The usual photo shows six, but that might just be a generic photo.

3) Are the bolted repairs holding up well long-term? This to me is the part I'm most uncomfortable with. 

4) Speaking of which, what the heck are the stock rivets riveted to, anyway?

5) Someone mentioned polyurethane cushions a few years back. Is there actually a source for these, or was this speculative?

[Ccewbj]

Hi, yes I originally saw your post which got me looking into this here and youtube.

1. I just did this so I cannot say; but perhaps others could. During my search, I came across "vitton" as another option. Also some were fabricating their own...not for me.

2. Confirmed CU216. All 8 included, nothing else.

3. Again, I can't comment for now, will check in a 1000km, once weather improves. I agree with the comfort concern; hence, why I tried different fasteners. I would suggest 3D helicoils for full length into lugs along with the 16mm tapered fasteners and counter sink the plate. I recently saw an update on a youtube video (Mel's Motors below) in the comments where he stated the bike he repaired was holding up 2 years later....

4. On the inside of the basket, the rivets sit in small wells, on the outside, the mushroomed rivet (the side we drill) holds on to the backing plate.

5. Note sure...as above, i came across the vitton and home made variety. I can confirm, while in 6th gear, moving my back wheel showed the gear moving ~1/16 to 1/8" relative to the basket, so under the bikes weight and power, i imagine it was much more and this is shown in the pic above on the reverse side of the plate. The Hinsons fit very snug and needed a bit of oil to push them in. You'll see they only go in one way. The old ones were pretty hard and were easily removed from the gear ring.

If like you down the road, mine starts the noise again, I'll likely buy a new basket due to the wear on the backing plate on mine now, and I'd want to replace the 2D helicoils with 3D.

I also think mine may have been opened up previously...no red Loctite on bolt and I believe my friction disks were not in the proper order as I reassembled (following manual), I had to shuffle some, but when I disassembled, I kept them in the order they came out.

Edited March 19 by Ccewbj
typo, correction and link added

[Backbone]

Hi All. I just purchased an MT09 Tracer (New Zealand market) & was horrified at the noise coming from the clutch. It was particularly bad at idle in neutral, but would disappear when the clutch was pulled in. It was also noisy when riding at low throttle / load cruising. Glad I found this website & this post albeit quiet old. However the information is still relevant as there are still plenty of bikes with this issue. I opted to use M7 x 1 countersunk cap screws & the Hinson CU216 cushion rubber kit. The cap screws came off Ebay as these were not available locally. Were made in China, but seemed good quality. I understand blue Loctite is more oil resistant so went with that, although most grades would probably work. The consequences of a fastener coming out would be possibly fatal to an engine. I would not be keen on using a course thread such as UNC or machining heads down on bolts to clear the oil pump chain. Fine threaded bolts are better at staying tight & the 6mm hole from the OEM rivet is perfect tapping size for M7 x 1      

[skipperT]

@Backbone , did this diminish the noise you heard (engine idling, clutch lever pulled in vs out)? Nice work!

Some noise from the clutch is normal of course but certain noises are not. All depends on what each of us hear/describe. Yamaha created and installed a sound dampener on later Tracer 900 models which you can purchase and fit to any earlier model. I installed one on my 2015. 

Coincidentally I’ve got mine removed from the bike right now, just waiting for a free moment to drill and repair. 
-Skip

Edited April 14 by skipperT

[2and3cylinders]

After all these years which included replacing the stock clutch basket on my 15 fastest red with the 16xsr slip assist clutch I have to admit that I have maximum gronk 

In tuning the fuel injection so to speak inside my shop with the 6-ft pocket door and 3 ft man door open and three fans going, I should have put on ear protection just from the clutch noise. 🤫

You can't even hear the engine!!!

Unlikely anything will happen with it this year as I still have a backlog of maintenance to do , now I just want to get out and see if I can physically ride because I think once I'm rolling it doesn't become that pronounced that I can't ignore it as I have for the last probably 6 years.

[Backbone]

Hi skipperT. Yes the noise is much less. There is still some noise when idling in neutral, but this is minimal. The Hinson rubbers were a snug fit into drive gear, so now there is no play. Word is the Yamaha OEM rubbers tend to shrink with oil & heat cycles as opposed to actually wearing. Although many have said this does not cause any problems & is not a reliability issue, I think that this accelerates wear in the back retainer plate. Other photos on this post clearly show wear from the fretting caused by this backlash in the clutch. This cannot be good long term going through the lubrication system of the engine. I also replaced the chain & sprockets at the same time, this was another source of noise. Put on a Scottoiler as well. Do this with all my bikes. I will post some pictures of that in the coming days. It's a stealth install.

[Backbone]

[skipperT]

Hi @Backbone , thanks for chiming back in and for the update. 

I wouldn’t sweat the marks pictured on the plate - probably normal. unless you can feel those circle patterns from the rubbers (oh god where is this going lol) indicated in your picture with a fingernail? Or are they more “polished” in nature?

Oil pump pickup and filter will take care of cleaning out any debris no worries there. 

-S

[piotrek]

On 4/14/2024 at 11:04 AM, skipperT said:

I’ve got mine removed from the bike right now, just waiting for a free moment to drill and repair.

Like others on here, I highly recommend doing this. That awful racket at idle in neutral is all but gone, as is the low speed/RPM judder (in traffic, for example). I also recommend taking the shine off the clutch plates with a scouring pad... and shuffling the friction plates a bit (still maintaining thickness order of course). The whole thing feels new, quiet and tight when done. A new clutch basket is another route... but $$.