Spark plug replacement & Throttle body sync advise

[petshark]

So as not to make any mistakes, I'd appreciate any tips concerning my next (first time) job.

I have found this excellent write up by @Wintersdark and expect the TBS to go well as I even have the exact same tool.

What about the spark plugs, don't want to under/over torque these and I've only ever changed the spark plug on my Yamaha RD50 when I was 16, or my lawnmower.. 

I bought this tool:

Tighten by feel or torque wrench? I really don't want to strip those threads. 😰

So any other advise for a rookie mechanic? Other things to do while the tank is off? I will clean the air filter and box.

 

[Buggy Nate]

Please don’t take this the wrong way. But after seeing what happened with your sprocket maybe you should pay someone or at least enlist the help of an experienced friend. I’d hate to see another bad luck thread.

Tightening by feel is something that has to be learned over years of experience. And if you haven’t got a good quality torque wrench don’t bother.

The throttle body synch is an easy enough task but there are plenty of steps that can go wrong. Even a broken off fuel line fitting can cause heart ache.

Most of my money made as a mechanic was fixing you tube technician’s handy work.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Buggy Nate

[Warchild]

+1 on Buggy Nate's observations. 

I tighten these by feel as well, but that's from 30+ years of tuning bikes. Approach this with care -  petshark-ing your cylinder head threads will ruin your mental health, I promise.

The Tracer's spark plug spec of 9.4 ft-lbs is easy to surpass without experience... torque wrench for you, good sir.  👍

 

[Ride365]

I'm a pretty damn good wrench and have always worked on all my bikes, but anything engine related other than oil changes on this bike.....heading to the local dealer where I bought it. Why is  the OP replacing the plugs, aren't they iridium and good for over 28K plus miles?

[petshark]

2 hours ago, Buggy Nate said:

Please don’t take this the wrong way. But after seeing what happened with your sprocket maybe you should pay someone or at least enlist the help of an experienced friend. I’d hate to see another bad luck thread.

Tightening by feel is something that has to be learned over years of experience. And if you haven’t got a good quality torque wrench don’t bother.

The throttle body synch is an easy enough task but there are plenty of steps that can go wrong. Even a broken off fuel line fitting can cause heart ache.

Most of my money made as a mechanic was fixing you tube technician’s handy work.

 

1 hour ago, Warchild said:

+1 on Buggy Nate's observations. 

I tighten these by feel as well, but that's from 30+ years of tuning bikes. Approach this with care -  petshark-ing your cylinder head threads will ruin your mental health, I promise.

The Tracer's spark plug spec of 9.4 ft-lbs is easy to surpass without experience... torque wrench for you, good sir.  👍

 

I really appreciate your concern and understand your point. I am also amused by the petsharking jibes but I also hope that this doesn't lead to a general sentiment that I might not have much talent for this kind of work and better leave it to professionals. I could be imagining it but just in case I'd like to try and nip that in the bud.

Obviously I don't expect anyone to keep tabs on my many posts and replies here and while I am ready to admit to mistakes, I first want to make the point that I have not made a lot of them in the 5 months that I have owned this bike. I have always researched, read the manual, been patient, and keen to listen to advise. Because of this I have diagnosed and solved many issues, and why this bike has so many of them is still anyone's guess. It's impossible to change a perception based on reading a few of these, perhaps even out of context, so I realize that I might have a different opinion of petshark's handywork if I didn't know him so well. 😇

So please just trust me when I say that while I am inexperienced in working on motorcycles I should be qualified to learn the skills needed while performing them. I do have two good quality torque wrenches and have tightened bolts a lot of times without issue on this bike before the unfortunate sprocket incident. I still can't really fault myself on that one. I finally got a reply from my own dealer who was on holiday and said the same has happened to him as well. I've proven that my torque wrench is accurate and am confident that anyone would have had the same result if they had tried to tighten it to 80 Nm. With the many reports out there, there is something going on with that torque setting. I won't argue that seasoned mechanics like you would have noticed something off before tightening. Perhaps the nuts were already stripped when they came off? They never went tight and I have used very little force, they just kept turning with the same resistance untill they finally stripped.

But again, thank you, I know you are just looking out for me but I'd hate to get all demotivated by this great forum while it's based on the perception that noone can be so unlucky, while I really am that unlucky with this bike.

21 minutes ago, Ride365 said:

I'm a pretty damn good wrench and have always worked on all my bikes, but anything engine related other than oil changes on this bike.....heading to the local dealer where I bought it. Why is  the OP replacing the plugs, aren't they iridium and good for over 28K plus miles?

All my life I've been handy with tools and able to fix most things just by following logic but I never touched my car of motorcycle. I've recently started wondering why not and got started. I get a lot of pleasure out of getting to know the machine from the inside out as well, even if it's been such a rough path. Getting new tools is also a lot of fun. Anyway I don't understand why this bike is supposed to go the dealer. What is so special about it?

I am replacing the plugs because the engine is not running smoothly. If you've seen the other threads; I've replaced the front wheel bearings that were without grease and the chain with the stiff links and now I finally get to feel only the engine issue instead of a triple compound problem. It is still hiccuping. The lower the revs, the more obvious it is. It was heavily accentuated by the rough chain and the bearing but that is all fixed now and the ride is already so much more enjoyable. The dealer listened to the spluttering that is obvious in neutral at 3k rpm and agreed that something is off. He said that these engines need to be have the throttle bodies synced often and advised me to do it. (I already was going to).

I got the advice that it might be a bad spark plug somewhere else. They are not iridium and they're cheap so I want to rule them out if the issue is still not fixed after the TBS.

 

[Ride365]

Good post petshark, but it's news to me "contrary to what the dealer states" that these engines need the TB's synched often?

[stevesweetz]

You might have already made one mistake, as I'm pretty sure there there's no way you're going to be able to use that socket + extension that you got.

I've done my plugs a few times.  The forward cant of the engine and closeness to the frame makes getting to the spark plugs extremely annoying.  You basically can't go straight in with a long extension.

I have to use a 3" extension with a U-joint to be able to get the socket down into the spark plug hole.  Fully inserted, the U-joint sits just above the opening, so you need another extension to have room to turn the wrench. Once the first section is down in, I can mostly straighten out the U-joint, making torque measured through this setup only somewhat questionable



If you don't have a torque wrench, get yourself one.  I use a cheap Tekton clicker type.  People have done tests on these and found them to be within 5% accuracy of far more expensive wrenches, which is good enough.

PS I think if you have a 4" (10cm) extension and a normal size spark plug socket, that's just the right length where it's short enough that you can maneuver it down into the hole while still sticking far enough above it to be able to attach wrench directly to it. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by stevesweetz

[petshark]

2 hours ago, Ride365 said:

Good post petshark, but it's news to me "contrary to what the dealer states" that these engines need the TB's synched often?

Thanks! It's not my only source. I've also heard a respected full-time motorcycle mechanic with +40 years of experience say the same thing on a podcast in response to a subscribers' question about his XSR900. Something along the lines of "Marvelous engine but they do love their TBS's". My dealer usually maintains that the Tracer is bulletproof so I was kind of amazed that he had anything negative to say about it after all. He added that "Japan" does not admit to this issue.

Perhaps some other forum members can confirm from experience? have

On a side note. It turns out that I'm actually due for a spark plug change at this exact mileage so there's that. (13.000 km)

54 minutes ago, stevesweetz said:

You might have already made one mistake, as I'm pretty sure there there's no way you're going to be able to use that socket + extension that you got.

That is really useful info! I've watched some video's of people doing this and based my choice on what I saw but I couldn't estimate how deep the plugs sit. You are saying that the extension on mine too long, right? I can easily return it and order another one.

Does anyone have an ideal tool for this job? If I'm buying another one I might as well go for the perfect one.

Thanks!

[Warchild]

4 hours ago, petshark said:

I really appreciate your concern and understand your point. I am also amused by the petsharking jibes

 

As keithu and several others will attest, over the years, whenever I assign a moniker to someone - typically at one of the long-distance rallies I am the host/rallymaster for - it is actually a term of endearment. Due to me secretly liking the victim - people that I don't like, don't get teased mercilessly, nor do they earn monikers.

If you were in the USA, I'd invite you to a gathering that I am hosting in Nevada this July. Then you could see what that insane, high-speed Endurance Riding business is all about, up close and personal. 😁  In fact, there will be a Tracer or two at that July event. Like keithu's for example.  👍

[keithu]

Regarding the spark plugs... unbolt the radiator and push it forward, or also disconnect the radiator hoses and remove it completely. Might as well do a coolant flush, most people don't perform that task often enough. 

Now that the radiator is out of the way you have excellent access to the sparkplugs from the front, no special extensions or U-joints needed. 

Also, and this may be an unpopular opinion: If the manufacturer recommends a torque value for a fastener, I will use a torque wrench if possible and tighten to that spec in most cases. I used to be an aircraft mechanic where every single fastener had a torque spec, and the QA guy looked over your shoulder while you listened for the click. I agree that some of the specs from Yamaha seem questionable, and no offense meant to anyone here, but if the choice is between the factory spec or sage advice from the Internet, I'm usually going with the factory spec.   

[petshark]

52 minutes ago, Warchild said:

 

As keithu and several others will attest, over the years, whenever I assign a moniker to someone - typically at one of the long-distance rallies I am the host/rallymaster for - it is actually a term of endearment. Due to me secretly liking the victim - people that I don't like, don't get teased mercilessly, nor do they earn monikers.

If you were in the USA, I'd invite you to a gathering that I am hosting in Nevada this July. Then you could see what that insane, high-speed Endurance Riding business is all about, up close and personal. 😁  In fact, there will be a Tracer or two at that July event. Like keithu's for example.  👍

I would accept that invitation gladly.  

39 minutes ago, keithu said:

Regarding the spark plugs... unbolt the radiator and push it forward, or also disconnect the radiator hoses and remove it completely. Might as well do a coolant flush, most people don't perform that task often enough. 

Now that the radiator is out of the way you have excellent access to the sparkplugs from the front, no special extensions or U-joints needed. 

Also, and this may be an unpopular opinion: If the manufacturer recommends a torque value for a fastener, I will use a torque wrench if possible and tighten to that spec in most cases. I used to be an aircraft mechanic where every single fastener had a torque spec, and the QA guy looked over your shoulder while you listened for the click. I agree that some of the specs from Yamaha seem questionable, and no offense meant to anyone here, but if the choice is between the factory spec or sage advice from the Internet, I'm usually going with the factory spec.   

Thanks. Will this work with the 11" extension that I bought, you think?

The factory spec just got me in trouble on the rear sprocket, that's why I'm super-cautious now. Using an almost new certified quality torque wrench at the correct torque I stripped a nut, damaged studs and possibly the underlying hub. There's a long thread about this but no answers as to why it happened.

[piotrek]

8 hours ago, petshark said:

They are not iridium and they're cheap so I want to rule them out if the issue is still not fixed after the TBS.

In case you become tempted by the promise of Iridium.... I had a nasty experience with (supposedly compatible) Iridium plugs last year. Unless NGK offers a direct replacement, I would stay with what the book calls for.

[dazzler24]

6 hours ago, petshark said:

On a side note. It turns out that I'm actually due for a spark plug change at this exact mileage so there's that. (13.000 km)

 

Have the service intervals changed since my 2015 was built?  Or is this a global location based thing.

[knyte]

59 minutes ago, piotrek said:

I would stay with what the book calls for

THIS.

I had an experience with my SUV whereby I installed platinum plugs only to discover the vehicle ran worse (it'd run horrid when cold, missing, lack of power, and stumble sometimes even when warmed up).  I tried different fuel, including different octane, changed out the air filter, the plug wires & coil, even had a dealership flash new firmware, new fuel filter,  but only after re-installing factory spec spark plugs did it run properly again without any stumbles at all, ever again.

Lesson learned:  don't overthink it!

[roadrash83]

26 minutes ago, dazzler24 said:

Have the service intervals changed since my 2015 was built?  Or is this a global location based thing.

   8000mi or 12 months? Since when do spark plugs wear out at 12 month in service regardless of the miles. I will have no problem running those plugs for 36 month and 12000mi.