Sick of Yamaha

[petshark]

I'm sorry to hear this.
On the other side of the spectrum I've now done a few longer rides on my 5 days new-to-me T9 and it blows my ECU-flashed–Ohlins-equipped 2019 GT out of the water. It's so much better than I had anticipated.

I had/have the heated comfort seat on the 2019 and it has always felt like a gimmick. Sometimes I've turned it on but having a hot ass does not do very much for overall comfort in my case. Heated grips on the other hand make a world of difference but you all know that. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by petshark
spelling

[jthayer09]

1 hour ago, petshark said:

I'm sorry to hear this.
On the other side of the spectrum I've now done a few longer rides on my 5 days new-to-me T9 blows my ECU flashed Ohlins equipped 2019 GT out of the water. It's so much better than I had anticipated.

I had/have the heated comfort seat on the 2019 and it's always felt like a gimmick. Sometimes I turned it on but have a hot ass does not do very much to the overall comfort in my case. Heated grips on the other hand make a world of difference but you all know that. 

I agree with you the bike is absolutely phenomenal, the new engine is better across the entire rev range and it is a huge improvement having that torque come online 1500rpm earlier. I've said before the electronic suspension is like 90% of my previous Ohlins setup on the FJ09 when really pushing it but infinitely better everywhere else.

The 2nd gear not pulling issue is not major. I just pin it in first and just blip through the gears when getting rowdy, it really only comes up in weird cases where I'm in a 25MPH zone and I'm too lazy to shift back down.

But it's weird that the issue even exists exclusively in that gear.

[2and3cylinders]

20 hours ago, OldBikers said:

I have no such issues at all in over 6K miles but have had a lot of smiles.  The recall actually made the throttle a bit smoother but it was smooth to begin with.  My previous bike was a 2012 FZ-01 which had a notorious throttle snatch that was cured with an ECU flash,

I thought you did have an issue with your throttle that required it be replaced and maybe also another quibble?

Other than needing a flash and MCCT, last I rode it my fastest Red 15 was a hoot to ride.  Now yes I did improve the suspension and brakes, the saddle and screen but I've never had a bike I didn't feel a need to do that to...

And at maybe 10.5k invested over 51000 miles, $ per mile is low & per smile pretty high!

[OldBikers]

6 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I thought you did have an issue with your throttle that required it be replaced and maybe also another quibble?

Other than needing a flash and MCCT, last I rode it my fastest Red 15 was a hoot to ride.  Now yes I did improve the suspension and brakes, the saddle and screen but I've never had a bike I didn't feel a need to do that to...

And at maybe 10.5k invested over 51000 miles, $ per mile is low & per smile pretty high!

The original throttle tube was cracked and would stick unless you pressed it into the bars.  I had a fix using wire ties to hold the tube in place so it wouldn't lock up.  This was replaced last year before the recall.  Other than that there were no issues that weren't user error, like running it in gear while on the center stand to clean and lube the chain, DUH.  This is the first bike I had with ABS and didn't realize how it can screw up the ECU which did need to be reflashed.  Again user error.

Maybe the Liquid Metal isn't the fastest but it sure does work for me.

Edited July 4, 2022 by OldBikers

[Kevin R]

On 7/1/2022 at 9:51 AM, KrustyKush said:

 Even with the (agreed) sorry TFT displays. Useless for a 73 year old. I naturally assume Yamaha did not have my 73 year old eyes in mind when they designed it. So I accept it as it is.

I have two words for you: Dive Optx. It's like reading glasses for your face shield. Check out the write-up I did a while back. It's a gamechanger for those with sub 20/20 vision.

https://www.tracer900.net/search/?q=diveoptx&quick=1

 

[2and3cylinders]

3 hours ago, Kevin R said:

I have two words for you: Dive Optx. It's like reading glasses for your face shield. Check out the write-up I did a while back. It's a gamechanger for those with sub 20/20 vision.

https://www.tracer900.net/search/?q=diveoptx&quick=1

 

Interesting but will they adhere (and damage)a face shield Pinlock insert?

[ZigMerid]

35 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

Interesting but will they adhere (and damage)a face shield Pinlock insert?

This site claims they peel off. https://underwater.com.au/shop/diveoptx-hydrotac-lenses.html

One imagines you apply them to the bottom half of your visor so as to turn your visor into bi-focals. Well, with the top lens being unmagnified 🙂

Seems like it might be useful for those who can't focus on the display. Something I presume is harder for digital displays than the old steam-gage variety where a blurry speedo needle still tells you something.

 

[psyshack]

Hate to read this as I'm in the market right now at this awful time in motorcycle history for a new fun bike to stable with my 2018 Wing Tour 6MT. The Tracer 900 GT is at the top of my list right now along with the MT-09 SP. Same bikes different trim. But the Tracer seems to be a better choice as a convertible. And a more fun bike to ride over to Arkansas to run the PIG Trail or other fun twisties. Had my name on a 2022 FJR but it came in freight damaged in May and the morons at Yamaha still haven't shipped the needed repair parts. Then I read this thread and I'm like,,, " Do I even want a Yamahammer anymore ". Flat spot and recall,,, wtf is wrong with Yamaha? Then throw in weak brakes and a few other customer complaints that are not historically Yamaha traits, the questioning begins. None of the YouTube reviews from all over the world bring any of these issues to the forefront. Well,,, except the windshield. I've had Yamahammers for years dating back to RD350/400, RZ350/500, Big Bore FJ's and FJR's, Warrior, Strat and a few others most bought new. And have avoided the tranny issues with the FJR's and Big Twins. After reading around forums my simple brain is starting to think possible a BMW R1250RS or heaven forbid a evil thug life Ducati Motard. But seeing I've never owned a modern BMW or Duc of the computer age that has some fear. And knowing how awful the Euro bike dealers are in my part of the world are,,, those could be bad purchases. And Honda as nothing I want. the NT1100 looks to be as boring and soul killing as my Wing. Wing is a good bike and is without a doubt the best boring motorcycle I have ever owned. In the end it's just a half*** effort on Hondas part being under powered, over weight, outdated navi and bluetooth system with great suspension geometry with bad dynamics and control. And the linked brakes curse. It's like Honda really does not want to build bikes or cars anymore. I gave up on Honda cars as they got way over priced and extremely boring with reliability on the slide downward. Sorry for the ramble. 

[OldBikers]

I would be very comfortable getting a T9GT.  I did buy the first one that my dealer received and to date only the throttle tube was cracked but still usable until a replacement came in.  Since then it has been a joy to ride and with two trips totaling over 3,000 miles it is still the most comfortable yet still sporty bike I have ever owned.  The brakes are anything but weak even the rear if one knows how to use it. 

Any other issues were user error. 

[Sunde]

Obviously you can get unlucky with any bike/manufacturer. The dealer who i bought my Tracer from (obviously wanted to sell a bike) but he made it pretty clear that they really dont deal with many recall/issues on Yamaha. He has been selling all kinds of bikes for 40 years and know his way around things.
 Obviously this is in europe, but still.
I think you can be pretty confident in buying something like a T9 or MT09 2021+ model. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Sunde

[Grumpy Goat]

7 hours ago, psyshack said:

... After reading around forums my simple brain is starting to think possible a BMW R1250RS or heaven forbid a evil thug life Ducati Motard. ...

If in your quest for a second bike, the finances allow the BMW R1250RS, I say without hesitation - get it. Of my two bikes, the RS is my "naughty bike" but it is also so much more, and the 1250 is even more powerful. The bikes are quite different, but i you like torque and powerful brakes - front and rear - an many other things I will not mention on a Yamaha forum, then the RS is the perfect counterpoint to your Wing.

[jthayer09]

On 7/6/2022 at 10:00 AM, psyshack said:

After reading around forums my simple brain is starting to think possible a BMW R1250RS or heaven forbid a evil thug life Ducati Motard. But seeing I've never owned a modern BMW or Duc of the computer age that has some fear. And knowing how awful the Euro bike dealers are in my part of the world are,,, those could be bad purchases.

Funny you mention that, I had a deposit down on a 2018 2020 BMW r1250r after I totaled my FJ09 and was shopping around.

I really liked a lot about the 1250r like the low-down grunt, shaft drive, higher payload capacity compared to the Tracer 900, and the pleasant vibes of the boxer. But I also spent time reading the forums on the 1250 engine bikes from BMW and there are some things that are worrisome such as: shorter service intervals, having to change the alternator belt, and rust protection not being up to par. Specifically the gas tanks rusting is a huge problem; look up BMW abdeckring on Google.

I liked the old CP3 engine and with the Tracer 9 GT's changes to engine and chassis I decided to pull the trigger and I'm not disappointed at all. People who take test rides and do first ride impressions/reviews online aren't exactly wrong when they mention things like the brakes being weak (they have a break-in period). But again it's not the entire story. You'll find people on this forum with 100K+ on their CP3 engine, and I commuted in the winter in Ohio from 2016-2021 on my FJ09 and it didn't have any rust except for the exhaust flange bolts. Zero problems on the FJ09 after a tune to fix the snatchy throttle, and now with the Tracer 9 my only issue is the flat spot in 2nd gear that can be fixed with a tune or ECU flash most likely in the near future. 1 software problem is about as little bit of a hassle as you can ask for on a modern bike.

If you care about my opinion at all here were my key feature comparisons between the T9 and the r1250r from riding both:

r1250r has better brakes but not by a large gap, hard to tell how much this was just better brake "feel" than objective stopping distance.

Yamaha's new quickshifter for 2021 and onwards is WORLDS better than BMW's it's not even a competition, most reviewers will agree it's probably the best in the biz right now, it is very good.

Electronic suspension: they're both great and basically do the same thing. BMW has more "settings" as in you have more levels of stiff-soft to choose from. Yamaha gives us 2 options of: "not quite stiff enough" and "soft enough for everything else".

BMW's media tilt-wheel to navigate the menus is much better than Yamaha's crappy thumb-dial.

I like the CP3 triple a lot, might be my favorite engine ever. The 1250 boxer is wonderful though, it has gobs of power but it is a little bit slower to rev than the CP3, I'd put it in my #3 spot for favorite engine notwithstanding any reliability issues. My #2 is the 1340 Evo if you're curious.

You mentioned BMW dealer network being less available which definitely went into my purchase decision. There's also huge aftermarket support for the Tracers and easy parts availability as there are many shared parts with other Yamaha bikes. There is a big aftermarket for BMW but it seems to be primarily focused on the GS line.

Don't be too bummed about our complaints with the Tracer 9, if anything it's just our standards are high for these bikes and this forum specifically is full of people who actually ride our steeds rather than let them sit and be garage queens.

Cheers,

[Grumpy Goat]

8 hours ago, jthayer09 said:

... I also spent time reading the forums on the 1250 engine bikes from BMW and there are some things that are worrisome such as: shorter service intervals, having to change the alternator belt, and rust protection not being up to par. Specifically the gas tanks rusting is a huge problem; look up BMW abdeckring on Google.

...

If you care about my opinion at all here were my key feature comparisons between the T9 and the r1250r from riding both:

r1250r has better brakes but not by a large gap, hard to tell how much this was just better brake "feel" than objective stopping distance.

Yamaha's new quickshifter for 2021 and onwards is WORLDS better than BMW's it's not even a competition, most reviewers will agree it's probably the best in the biz right now, it is very good.

I will agree that the Yamaha quickshifter is significantly better than the BMW's on the R bikes in the lower gears (shifts 1-2-3). Everything else I tend to disagree with, including the brakes. The R/RS's brakes are better than the Yamaha's by the same amount that the Yamaha's QS is better than the BMW's.

I own/run a forum on the watercooled boxer in the R1200/R1250 R/RS, and am moderator on a larger German-based RS forum, and the issues you mention do not apply. For one, as far as I am aware the tanks are plastic and the ring area has zero rust problems. I also am part of a largish RS Owners group who meet annually and who have bought both the R1200 and then the R1250 RSs. Non one has reported any rusting issues anywhere. I suspect you may be mixing/matching years of R/RS bikes. Based on my 2 minute Google check, the ones with the rust on the "abdeckring" are pre 2014 and the R1200 R/RS waterboxers started in 2015/2016 depending on the market. The 1250 engine only showed up in the 2019 model year. When it came to rust, common complaints on some bikes are the centre stand which gets lots of debris damage from the road, and in the UK people note superficial rust on pannier racks ... in some cases. None of these are widely reported.

The BMW service interval is 6000 miles while that for my Yamaha is 4000 miles so I am confused about this shorter service interval you mention. Never heard of anyone having issues with alternator belts either.

I don't mean to come on a Yamaha model forum and extoll the virtues of the BMW but just thought I needed to correct certain generalizations based on personal experience as an owner of both bikes. The R/RS are not perfect, just like any other bike, and there are some things that I like on the Tracer better, but the issues you raised are not the issues which one should look at if in the market for a present model R/RS.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Grumpy Goat

[2and3cylinders]

GG Thanks for your response. 

 I've admired Beamers since before I started riding

 I remember them as very refined And  Finey finished gentlemans express Twins

 They were actually too rich for my blood

 So I found basket case British bikes To restore and get around on and turn over for some pocket money

 I rode a few now classic BMW's But they were softly sprung and seem to wallow a bit.  With the shaft drive jacking effect they Were an acquired taste, quirky, clunky and heavy compared to my British singles; which isn't really a fair comparison.

 Of course that's all water under the bridge Since what, late eighties when the BMW led the charge toward ABS and stability control, accessibility and unique, albeit stolen front suspension system designs.

Nowadays you can't go wrong with a BMW I think but only if you've got the coin

 Unfortunately, as in my early 70z on life as a devout motorcyclist, I again don't have the shekels 

Again thanks for your input! 

[OldBikers]

Cost is an important part of consideration.

I just love the R1000XR but couldn't justify spending the extra $6,000 to $9,000 more than the T9GT.  Yes the T9 has a wonky menu wheel and no BT or Nav and the semi-auto suspension only has two positions and has manual preload but are those worth that much more.  165 HP is nice on the track but does one really need it to tour or commute?  When I toured the Pyrenees I could have rented the XR but opted for a 2019 Tracer 900 GT and saved a few hundred Euros.

A friend just bought an XR and by the time he added options it ran north of $24,000.

A lot of the customer satisfaction comes from the dealer not the manufacturer.  Our local BMW dealer may be the most expensive for service in the country. Another friend brought in his GS800 for a valve check and left there with a $2,200 bill,OUCH!.