{US} Tech Bulletin M2016-004 Cam Chain Tensioner Noise

[fattraxx]

Mine was ordered without being listened to first. I assume they verified the noise when it went into the shop. This is the dealer ship that I bought the bike from, that may or may not have helped, but it was a no hassle repair from start to finish. Your results may vary as stated by others.

[hallard85]

Mine was ordered without being listened to first...

Kudos to the dealer. The point really should be that if the VIN checks out, then replace the bloody part. Having the customer wait until the part fails (noise is the part failing) is just wrong, and given that the part isn't an expensive item and doesn't require a major surgery to replace... no reason to be this difficult. 
Not all people are equally able to pickup on strange noises coming from an engine, so inevitably some will let things go too long, and then what?

Couldn't agree more.  Really I'm frustrated with Yamaha for not simply making this a recall, rather than a TSB.  But even as a TSB, they shouldn't have included verbiage stating 'verify noise is present and persistent, as not all tensioners will need to be replaced'... because the bottom line is it's a faulty part, and it's just a matter of time before it fails. 
In any case, I don't see what a dealer has to gain from holding out on this for owners with intermittent (and surely worsening) CCT noise.  The dealer from which I bought the bike (as well as my last new bike and $1000s in parts in the last 2 years) was giving me the run-around and now they've lost my business for at least the foreseeable future.  
 
The other dealer that took my word on it and simply verified my VIN was included?  They've gained a customer.
 
 
 

[skipperT]

 
The other dealer that took my word on it and simply verified my VIN was included?  They've gained a customer.
 
 

One dealer was honest and the other was not. I'm not sure that would drive my decision even when it's in my favor.  

 
Exactly.
 
Skip

[duhs10]

One dealer was honest and the other was not. I'm not sure that would drive my decision even when it's in my favor.  

Exactly.  
Skip

I don't think it's that cut and dry. It's a known problem and if you listen to Yamaha and the part fails out of warranty destroying the motor (worst case scenario) do you think Yamaha will replace everything? Maybe, but doubtful. Pretty sure @adjuster would have something to say about that. So maybe the "dishonest" dealer is actually looking out for the customer to avoid a more severe problem and repair cost in the future.
 

[hallard85]

Couldn't agree more.  Really I'm frustrated with Yamaha for not simply making this a recall, rather than a TSB.  But even as a TSB, they shouldn't have included verbiage stating 'verify noise is present and persistent, as not all tensioners will need to be replaced'... because the bottom line is it's a faulty part, and it's just a matter of time before it fails. 
In any case, I don't see what a dealer has to gain from holding out on this for owners with intermittent (and surely worsening) CCT noise.  The dealer from which I bought the bike (as well as my last new bike and $1000s in parts in the last 2 years) was giving me the run-around and now they've lost my business for at least the foreseeable future.  
 
The other dealer that took my word on it and simply verified my VIN was included?  They've gained a customer.
 
 

One dealer was honest and the other was not. I'm not sure that would drive my decision even when it's in my favor.  

OK so in your view... 
Honest dealer:
'We need to listen to the bike and hear the noise before we'll order the parts. No appointment required.'
'Okay we've heard the noise now, and verified that your VIN is affected by the TSB, but you need to schedule an appt. to come back and have a tech listen to the bike with a stethoscope before we will order the parts.  Soonest appt will be 3 weeks out.  Then it will take who knows how long to get the parts and schedule the service, so all-in-all you'll need to minimize your riding for the next ~6 weeks of prime riding season.'
 
Dishonest dealer:
'I am familiar with that TSB.  I've confirmed that your bike has the faulty CCT, and you've confirmed that you're hearing noise.  I'll order the parts and get the service scheduled now.'
 
You and I are on two completely different wavelengths...

[hallard85]

I'm as hard or harder on dealers than anybody. I don't use them and won't be using them for this issue even though mine is is on the list. I'm fine with being on a different wavelength but I'm not going to type up paragraphs and try to attribute them to you. "verify", "not all units will need to be replaced" etc. Either they did or didn't.  

That's fair, and I didn't mean to call you out or anything.  I just think it's more honest for the dealer to read between the lines and make the customer whole by replacing a part that Yamaha has already admitted is faulty.  Maybe "honest" is the wrong word. But since there's no prescribed method to verify the noise described in the TSB, a dealer could take the customer's statement about noise as sufficient verification. 
I, too, like to avoid dealer service as much as possible... but my CCT needs to be replaced so this case is a rare exception for me  B-|

[duhs10]

I don't think it's that cut and dry. It's a known problem and if you listen to Yamaha and the part fails out of warranty destroying the motor (worst case scenario) do you think Yamaha will replace everything? Maybe, but doubtful. Pretty sure @adjuster would have something to say about that. So maybe the "dishonest" dealer is actually looking out for the customer to avoid a more severe problem and repair cost in the future.

Yamaha thinks not all need to be replaced. So why would anybody be in a big hurry to install another revised cct from Yamaha when it appears many here have already judged Yamaha incompetent in the design of multiple revisions and either incorrect or dishonest on whether they are likely to fail and aren't supporting owners in the way they like? How long will that newly installed cct be backed by Yamaha to reply to your strawman? What's that definition of insanity again?    
 
 

I don't disagree with you, just offering a different view of circumstances because your initial comment seemed condescending.
 
When my CCT finally gives out, I will be putting a manual tensioner in myself so honestly I'm not too worried about which practice a dealer uses to justify the repair.
 

[micah2074]

I've been a lifelong Yamaha guy. The FJ is my 8th. It's the first one that I've needed to have something warranteed.
Yamaha refused to take care of the problem(s) on my brand new bike. My dealership is going to though.
The dealer has earned my continued business.
I love my newest Yamaha bike but I'm not satisfied at all with Yamaha the company. I'm my experience they will do anything they can to get out of a repair.

[duhs10]

I've been a lifelong Yamaha guy. The FJ is my 8th. It's the first one that I've needed to have something warranteed. Yamaha refused to take care of the problem(s) on my brand new bike. My dealership is going to though.
The dealer has earned my continued business.
I love my newest Yamaha bike but I'm not satisfied at all with Yamaha the company. I'm my experience they will do anything they can to get out of a repair.

Unfortunately that seems to be how things work these days. Not every company, but probably most companies, would rather spend resources trying to prove the invalidity of a warranty claim rather than fixing the problem. I understand that as a company you have to have some sort of criteria for warranty claims to protect the bottom line, but by denying them so often you are going to hurt your consumer base and in the end hurt your bottom line.
 

[micah2074]

I've been a lifelong Yamaha guy. The FJ is my 8th. It's the first one that I've needed to have something warranteed. Yamaha refused to take care of the problem(s) on my brand new bike. My dealership is going to though.
The dealer has earned my continued business.
I love my newest Yamaha bike but I'm not satisfied at all with Yamaha the company. I'm my experience they will do anything they can to get out of a repair.

Unfortunately I don't think you'll find much better practices from other mfgs. 
Suzuki had auto cct problems on some models very similar to what's been laid out here. They sorted it sooner or later (rev 4 I think). Those of us that went before never even got an SB.
 
My month old Kawasaki had to have a new crank. The bill was astronomical yet the dealer got it approved in less than one day. No recall or SB. The service mgr just winked when I asked if he ever had an amount that large approved so quickly for something that wasn't expected or known to the mfg.
 
The SuperDuke needed warranty work as well.
 
All of the above are in the last ten years. That's after many years of never having any warranty work.
 
 
 
 

 
I am just blown away that they wouldn't perform $35 (according to my dealer) in warrantee work on a 3 month old motorcycle.

[jetfixer]

I got to share my opinion here. We all spent our hard earned money on a new bike, we want it right, we just want to ride.
 
Yamaha realized they still have some problems with the cct and they are trying to produce new updated ones fast as they can. With that said I can only imagine they don't have enough available at the moment to replace every one, on every bike sold. Just as I can only assume the dealers are not ready to be overwhelmed with everybody wanting there cct replaced now. If some bikes are not making noise why change it? Hence why it's a SB not a recall.
 
If yours is making noise and needs to be replaced do you want to have to wait because someone elses got theres replaced and it wasn't actually making noise or wasn't bad to begin with? I would hope that dealers prioritize parts and labor for bikes as needed.

[adjuster]

Here is a reality check: What do you guys think the cost of Yamaha, with all it's in-house talent, to draw up a simple CAD blueprint, and have a supplier produce a manual CCT for this bike?
 
And then offer the owners the CHOICE of a manual Yamaha one that the OWNER will be responsible to adjust and check if it starts to make noise, or is loose. Or get the latest revised version of the "automatic" one they have at least 4 versions of now that I know of?
 
Someone already makes the alloy part for the stock CCT. It could be modified easy to a manual unit, and the cost? Pennies compared to what we pay for the APE or Graves units made from billet alloy v/s the cast housing Yamaha uses.
 
I'd suspect Yamaha will use this CP3 engine on many bikes into the future. It would be AMAZING as a 600cc engine, de-stroked to nearly square bore, and stronger valve springs, lighter valves, and a RPM limit of say 15,000 RPM. Screaming power on top, while it would have class beating low end tourqe v/s the other 600's out there.
 
And for more power? Bore it out, go to max stroke, move the piston pin up into the oil rings with longer rods and a total displacement of say 1000 or even 1100cc... Would be monster in a "touring" bike, Razors and Snowmobiles. Low end grunt is everything on most of those, and this engine is light, narrow and very powerful for it's size/weight. The bigger displacement would have a RPM limit of 9k or so, but who needs more with the low end power gains where most folks need the power in these types of vehicles/motorcycles?
 
So, Yamaha, please wise up. Do the right thing.
 
And for tech's who say they would remove a manual CCT? What an idiot. Sorry, but I'd never let that tech anywhere near my bike, even to do simple oil changes. Total idiot should be working on anything but high RPM and high power to weight ratio machines.
 
Every, and I do mean EVERY race bike in this world that uses a timing chain runs a manual CCT. Period.
 
Why? Because they work regardless of the RPM. They don't cause excessive wear. They don't put too much oil pressure on the tensioner. They don't break fragile bent spring steel clips. They don't have coil springs that can fail under harmonic loads. They don't bleed off oil pressure. They are lighter weight. They don't have parts that wear out.
 
Once you set the tension, it remains at that setting until you loosen the lock nut, and change the setting.
 
In reality, if you SET them TOO TIGHT, they wear the nylon/plastic slider till they are the correct tension, and then the wear stops. (I don't recommend this, but that's the reality. Just like a high spot in a bearing wears upon start up of the engine after assembly, and that wear then stops when the bearing has reached correct clearance to the journal.) Those wear particles are designed to be caught up in the first oil change, and filter. The soft metals used in the bearing journals, and the nylon 66 used for the timing chain sliders are all designed to wear into use, and then due to the oil in the engine, have very little wear from that point on.
 
And folks, if 10, 20 or 30 thousand miles later, IF you do get any noise, you can just unlock the manual CCT, and adjust it slightly tighter, and lock the nut down again for the next XX,XXX miles.
 
Why Yamaha has chosen to fall on it's sword over this CCT is beyond me. It's insane. But they are doing it. Must be a family member or some sort of "Saving Face" deal with the supplier/engineer who designed/built this cluster F'k of a CCT.

[duhs10]

@adjuster I knew you would have something to say... haha

[jetfixer]

I am really curious to the percentage of bikes with known "positive" failures to bikes with no problems. When I talked with the service departmrnt of the high volume dealer near me they had to look up the SB. They said that they had not replaced any and had no complaints, then offered to order the parts for me if I wanted.
 
Can someone smarter than me start a poll?

[hallard85]

I'd suspect Yamaha will use this CP3 engine on many bikes into the future. It would be AMAZING as a 600cc engine, de-stroked to nearly square bore, and stronger valve springs, lighter valves, and a RPM limit of say 15,000 RPM. Screaming power on top, while it would have class beating low end tourqe v/s the other 600's out there. 
And for more power? Bore it out, go to max stroke, move the piston pin up into the oil rings with longer rods and a total displacement of say 1000 or even 1100cc... Would be monster in a "touring" bike, Razors and Snowmobiles. Low end grunt is everything on most of those, and this engine is light, narrow and very powerful for it's size/weight. The bigger displacement would have a RPM limit of 9k or so, but who needs more with the low end power gains where most folks need the power in these types of vehicles/motorcycles?

YESSSSS.  I keep hoping they'll replace the R6 with a CP3 variant, and since Supersport regulations allow 675cc triples, they could do that displacement like the Triumph Daytona and have a much more usable street bike.  But if they simply de-stroked the current motor it would be even more oversquare (it's 78mm x 59.1mm I believe), so they'd probably sleeve the bore down a bit as well to get in that displacement range. 
They actually already have a 998cc three cylinder in the YXZ1000R side-by-side (SO MUCH WANT); it's 80.0mm x 66.2mm and revs to 10,500 RPM.  Don't know for sure but I'd bet money it's based on the 847cc CP3 motor.  Obviously servicing and emissions requirements are different for a side-by-side than a street motorcycle... but most of the work is already done for them!