{US} Tech Bulletin M2016-004 Cam Chain Tensioner Noise

[stevesweetz]

Not wanting to wait until September, I did end up buying and installing an APE manual tensioner. However, I am very nervous about whether I have it set correctly.
 
I already asked in the other cam chain thread, but anyone who has installed one, can you let me know either the length or how many threads are visible on your adjuster screw past the lock nut?
 
Over on the FZ-09 forum the few people that posted there about it have 8 or 9 threads visible.  I have 8 and I'm not getting any rattling, but I'm worried about it being too tight.  I tried back it out until it rattled and tightening it from there, but with the bike just idling in neutral on the kickstand I weirdly couldn't get it to rattle.
 

[skipperT]

I'd suspect Yamaha will use this CP3 engine on many bikes into the future. It would be AMAZING as a 600cc engine, de-stroked to nearly square bore, and stronger valve springs, lighter valves, and a RPM limit of say 15,000 RPM. Screaming power on top, while it would have class beating low end tourqe v/s the other 600's out there. 
And for more power? Bore it out, go to max stroke, move the piston pin up into the oil rings with longer rods and a total displacement of say 1000 or even 1100cc... Would be monster in a "touring" bike, Razors and Snowmobiles. Low end grunt is everything on most of those, and this engine is light, narrow and very powerful for it's size/weight. The bigger displacement would have a RPM limit of 9k or so, but who needs more with the low end power gains where most folks need the power in these types of vehicles/motorcycles?

 
They actually already have a 998cc three cylinder in the YXZ1000R side-by-side (SO MUCH WANT); it's 80.0mm x 66.2mm and revs to 10,500 RPM.  Don't know for sure but I'd bet money it's based on the 847cc CP3 motor.  Obviously servicing and emissions requirements are different for a side-by-side than a street motorcycle... but most of the work is already done for them! 

 
They've used a similar engine design in snowmobiles since 2006 and waverunners since the fx140 came out. (04 maybe? Gosh I'm getting old!)
 
The YXZ1000R engine's stroke is the same as a Nytro sled. Bore is totally different.
 
I've been dreaming about how to rip the FJ engine apart and build it using bolt on Yamaha oe parts.
 
Sigh.
 
-Skip
 
 

[clint]

Not wanting to wait until September, I did end up buying and installing an APE manual tensioner. However, I am very nervous about whether I have it set correctly. 
I already asked in the other cam chain thread, but anyone who has installed one, can you let me know either the length or how many threads are visible on your adjuster screw past the lock nut?
 
Over on the FZ-09 forum the few people that posted there about it have 8 or 9 threads visible.  I have 8 and I'm not getting any rattling, but I'm worried about it being too tight.  I tried back it out until it rattled and tightening it from there, but with the bike just idling in neutral on the kickstand I weirdly couldn't get it to rattle.

I've got about 11mm of thread past the lock-nut. About 8-9 threads. I installed the APE CCT about 3 weeks ago and it's been PERFECT at this setting. 
 

[adjuster]

As Depech Mode says, "Enjoy the silence"... LOL
 
And peace of mind too. (Says Adjuster.... LOL)
 
Nice that you used the stock bolts v/s the ones APE shipped with the CCT. It looks nice, and they are less likely to rust I think v/s the black oxide ones that APE included.
 
Of course, the threaded rod is black oxide coated, but I think it's done better than the cap bolts they included. (And those are happy to be in my parts/nut/bolt/stuff drawer of the tool box..)
 

[2whltuner]

went up to my dealer to have my APE cct (which I purchased online from APE) installed against the recall, at first they said no problem that they would just charge the labor against the recall, now they say no deal that they are not allowed to install customer supplied parts. (it would have been different if I would have purchased the cct from the dealer as opposed to buying it directly from APE)
 
Doesn't surprise me.

[britelitebob]

went up to my dealer to have my APE cct (which I purchased online from APE) installed against the recall, at first they said no problem that they would just charge the labor against the recall, now they say no deal that they are not allowed to install customer supplied parts. (it would have been different if I would have purchased the cct from the dealer as opposed to buying it directly from APE)  
Doesn't surprise me.

Forget the dealer, DIY....it's a half hour effort. Combine labour time slot with an oil change.

I agree DIY, you know that you have a good replacement part so why take a chance with some bozo that may screw it up. 
 

[oldguy44]

I had the same problem, so I backed it out enough to really hear it at 25-30 mph, then stopped and tightened about an eighth of a turn. After about 6 adjustments I think i'm about there.  I also could't hear it at idle.  Ride and tighten til it gets quiet.
 

[adjuster]

If you pull the "CP3" case, you can see the tensioner and cam chain. You can also see the oil pump drive chain too.
 
Be careful, and the cover should come off without breaking the gasket. If you use a long razor blade, you can make sure it does not break, by gently slide it beween the case and the gasket to release it if it's stuck at all.
 
If you break the gasket, you can use RTV, or the new gasket is very cheap from Yamaha.
 
Remove the cover. Then either clamp or secure the chain/tensioner with a zip tie. (Do not want the chain to move at all.) LEAVE THE PIN IN THE TENSIONER. It might come out with the case cover, but put it back in to hold the tensioner in place on the lower end. The CP3 cover has the other side to hold it in place.
 
Remove the stock CCT. It is a PITA, but you can do it with a common bent correct size allen wrench. You might need to remove the center bolt, and use a smaller allen wrench to back the CCT out so it's flexiable enough to remove, or not.
 
INSTALL NEW GASKET for the APE.
 
You might have to adjust the APE unit all the way "in" to get it to fit, then back it "out" longer so it's closer to the tensioner contact point. Secure with the two stock allen head bolts, they are much nicer than the black oxide ones APE includes I think.
 
When the housing is tight, now carefully tighten the adjustment bolt/rod that extends the APE contact shoe to the tensioner. When it contacts, you will feel the chain and tensioner go tight, and the chain will not move side to side.
 
Cut off the zip tie, or remove your clamp.
 
Now feel the chain and tensioner. The chain is too tight when it can't slip side to side on the nylon. You don't want to try and move the chain up or down at all. Just check to see if you have any side to side "slip" movement. This is about perfect. Much tighter, and you will get wear. Looser, and you will get noise.
 
Now, back off the rod 1/8th of a turn. This allows it to slide free, but should not slap or make noise.
 
While holding the rod secure with the allen wrench, lock the nut tight so it will not move period. It does not need King Kong's own tourqe, but it should not be finger tight either. You don't want it to back off, and make noise. And since there is no spring in there anymore, it's not going to get tighter if it's loose.
 
Now you can turn the bike over, and watch the chain move if you want, or if you have it on a center stand, you can put it in first, and have someone rotate the engine over. (Not easy, this bike has good compression.) You will see the chain slide, it should not change in tension at all. Check it side to side play while stopped, to see it stays constant.
 
Put the CP3 cover back on with the gasket, and check for leaks with a quick ride around the block.
 
Note any noise? If it's loose, it will make noise. Tighten up 1/8th of a turn, and lock it back down, and ride again. If you get noise, try another 1/8th turn, until it's quiet.
 
But I would not go past 1/2 turn without pulling the CP3 cover again. You could get too tight if you do, and it should have about 8 threads or so sticking out as noted by others. If you have 6 or less, I'd pull the cover to make sure it's not too tight.
 
If you have 10 threads showing, you might be loose, if it's noisy, and you don't want to jump a tooth on the sprockets, pull the cover and adjust as needed.
 
BTW, I'm not responsible for anything you do with this information. Your bike is your own. Legally you should not listen to me at all.
 

[adjuster]

Yes, let me add that addendum to this document: I'm not an expert, do not warranty any work or examples given forthwith and herefore. Accordingly, you should exercise good judgement and ignore everything I've written, or will ever write, said or will ever say. And place no value or substance upon these same such as to cause harm, even bodily harm or injury both physical, emotional or monetary.
 
In short, ignore my every post, feeble attempts at humor, and especially anything that might be taken as racist, bigoted or otherwise misconstrued as adding, subtracting, revealing or hiding value to any subject at hand, foot or other appendage of person.
 
In conclusion, I did not create that most foul body wind. I blame it on cabbage.

[2whltuner]

I have no problem with installing it myself, just lazy and if I could have it installed by the dealer under the recall, well what can I say, it's a 118 in my garage here in Phoenix and the induction heat absorbed by my tools makes the tools to hot to handle

[paladin]

I stopped by my local dealer to buy some spark plugs, 10,000 miles. While there I asked about the CCT TSB. I had them all convinced to replace the CCT when the lead mechanic said the noise was from the clutch. Their recomendation was to use Yahmalube full synthetic rather than the Mobil I 4T I am using. Will keep my fingers crossed that it does not fail. What is the best full synthetic oil to use in southern California?

[adjuster]

The best synthetic oil is the cheapest synthetic oil... LOL
Rotella T Synthetic is pretty highly regarded by most motorcycle owners, and I've used in many of my cars.
 
I'm running Mobil 1 at the moment, just because it was on sale at Costco for 27.00 for 6 quarts.
 
But I have run WalMart branded synthetic oils in motorcycles and cars with zero issues, and what I consider good results for shifting feel on the bikes. Just avoid any "high mileage" blends, as it has too much zinc, and that can cause your clutch to have issues with chatter, release and make the bike interesting to ride.
 
As an aside, the only time I've had that issue was after using some high mileage rated oil in my bike, and I pulled the clutch cover, hosed it down with WD 40, and then brake cleaner, and then changed the oil to Rotella T synthetic, and it was good to go again, shifting like butter...
 

[crempel]

My bike has intermittently made the cam chain rattle since new, but it would always quit when I had an opportunity to get to a dealer. On a recent trip to VA, it was making it like crazy. (4th time) It stopped at some point the next day, but I went by my local dealer today to tell him about it anyways. I asked him if he would take my word for it and he said yes. I was pleasantly surprised of course. He didn't put up any argument and said he had read the TSB. All scheduled and I'm quite happy obviously. Bike now at 10k miles BTW. 6 months in and still loving it.

[stevesweetz]

But I would not go past 1/2 turn without pulling the CP3 cover again. You could get too tight if you do, and it should have about 8 threads or so sticking out as noted by others. If you have 10 or more, I'd pull the cover to make sure it's not too tight.
 
If you have 6 threads showing, you might be loose, if it's noisy, and you don't want to jump a tooth on the sprockets, pull the cover and adjust as needed.
 

Pretty sure you've got that reversed there.  More threads showing = the adjuster is further out = looser. 
What's weird is I never felt any play in the cam chain at all.  Even with the adjuster completely out and just some rolled up cardboard jammed in the space between engine frame and the chain guide to keep the chain tight I couldn't budge the chain.
 
I pretty much just tightened it by feel with the engine running.  You can feel vibrations through the bolt and there was a point where it became very smooth - probably because it was so tight that the chain couldn't move at all.  I back it out at little from there and ended up at roughly the same number of threads everyone is showing anyway.
 
 

[adjuster]

You are right. More threads is loose, fewer threads is tighter. Thanks for the edit.