how to wire-in front LEDS - help sought please...

[wordsmith]

Can someone please tell me how to wire-up my inexpensive but effective (on other bikes) front LEDs. Unfortunately the 'post image' function doesn't seem to want to work for me - but each LED has a red and a black wire attached. I don’t want to bother with a switch or (if possible) relay. I’m totally lacking in electrical know-how and don’t have any equipment that might help, such as a multi-meter (whatever that may be). So if I may – guidance should be targeted to an eight year-old with learning difficulties! KIS and all that…
 
All and any help will be much appreciated.
 

[koth442]

Electronics are very intuitive to some. Others is entirely different. However, you will NEED some basic DIY stuff. Just like mechanical things, you can't change your oil if you don't have any tools.
 
Multimeter, the harbor freight special will do just fine
Bag of RED crimps and a crimper (The red specifices a wire diamter)
Wire cutters and wire stripper (again Harbor Freight special will probably work just fine) (and some extra wire to practice stripping wire)
Wire T tap
Soder kit (not strictly necessary, but may save your bacon)
 
Do you want these lights to come on with your headlight, or do you want them on the high beam? You will need to look at a wiring diagram and tap into the appropriate wire. Black will go to the ground wire. The red wire will go to either high beam or running light, whichever you select.
 

[nsmiller]

Rather than tapping into the OEM harness for things like accessory lights and whatnot, I always prefer using something like a fuzeblock to distribute power where it needs to go. It can live under your seat next to the battery.

[wordsmith]

Rather than tapping into the OEM harness for things like accessory lights and whatnot, I always prefer using something like a fuzeblock to distribute power where it needs to go. It can live under your seat next to the battery.

Thank you. It looks an impressive piece of kit suited to a novice like me - but I cannot find its cost anywhere. Any ideas? LATER EDIT - USD$89.99 plus presumably shipping.   Thank you...
 

[wordsmith]

Electronics are very intuitive to some. Others is entirely different. However, you will NEED some basic DIY stuff. Just like mechanical things, you can't change your oil if you don't have any tools. 
Multimeter, the harbor freight special will do just fine
Bag of RED crimps and a crimper (The red specifices a wire diamter)
Wire cutters and wire stripper (again Harbor Freight special will probably work just fine) (and some extra wire to practice stripping wire)
Wire T tap
Soder kit (not strictly necessary, but may save your bacon)
 
Do you want these lights to come on with your headlight, or do you want them on the high beam? You will need to look at a wiring diagram and tap into the appropriate wire. Black will go to the ground wire. The red wire will go to either high beam or running light, whichever you select.

Thanks, koth.   Where can I find the wiring diagram please? 

[thetruck454]

At work we refer to electronics as The Magic Smoke Box. Once the Magic Smoke leaves the box it doesn't work anymore and you can't put the Magic Smoke back in.

[suncoaster]

 

 

[phpaul]

Electronics are very intuitive to some. Others is entirely different. However, you will NEED some basic DIY stuff. Just like mechanical things, you can't change your oil if you don't have any tools. 
Multimeter, the harbor freight special will do just fine
Bag of RED crimps and a crimper (The red specifices a wire diamter)
Wire cutters and wire stripper (again Harbor Freight special will probably work just fine) (and some extra wire to practice stripping wire)
Wire T tap
Soder kit (not strictly necessary, but may save your bacon)
 
Do you want these lights to come on with your headlight, or do you want them on the high beam? You will need to look at a wiring diagram and tap into the appropriate wire. Black will go to the ground wire. The red wire will go to either high beam or running light, whichever you select.

Thanks, koth.   Where can I find the wiring diagram please?

Not trying to be a jerk here, and what koth said will certainly work, but there are better products out there.  I've been working with electricity and electronics since 1969 and have picked up on one or two tips. 
First, the WalMart (and even NAPA) crimp on connectors are less than optimal as are all the nylon sleeve type.  In general, and especially on exposed wiring like a motorcycle, spend the money for the good stuff with heat shrinkable sleeves.  The mechanical connection is more secure and it's water proof.  Amazon has them.
 
Second, the crimpers that come in the $8.99 kits are junk.  Very difficult for a pro to get a decent crimp with them, darn near impossible for a DIYer.  If you expect to do this sort of thing more than once, spend the money on a set of ratcheting crimpers with interchangeable dies.  It double-crimps the connection and ensures a solid crimp as the ratchet won't release until the crimp is complete.  Again with the Amazon
 
Finally, be VERY careful stripping the wire.  It's incredibly easy to cut off a few strands along with the insulation and that reduces the current-carrying capacity of the wire AND affects the integrity of the crimp as the wire diameter is reduced.
 
There are thousands, if not millions of crimps out there done with just the tools and supplies that koth recommended, but why not do it right the first time?
 
JMHO, YMMV

[koth442]

Thanks, koth.   Where can I find the wiring diagram please?

I usually find one on google. But I didn't see one when I just googled now. Service manual will definitely have the wiring diagram. Maybe there's one on the forum somewhere.

[koth442]

Not trying to be a jerk here, and what koth said will certainly work, but there are better products out there.  I've been working with electricity and electronics since 1969 and have picked up on one or two tips. 
First, the WalMart (and even NAPA) crimp on connectors are less than optimal as are all the nylon sleeve type.  In general, and especially on exposed wiring like a motorcycle, spend the money for the good stuff with heat shrinkable sleeves.  The mechanical connection is more secure and it's water proof.  Amazon has them.
 
Second, the crimpers that come in the $8.99 kits are junk.  Very difficult for a pro to get a decent crimp with them, darn near impossible for a DIYer.  If you expect to do this sort of thing more than once, spend the money on a set of ratcheting crimpers with interchangeable dies.  It double-crimps the connection and ensures a solid crimp as the ratchet won't release until the crimp is complete.  Again with the Amazon
 
Finally, be VERY careful stripping the wire.  It's incredibly easy to cut off a few strands along with the insulation and that reduces the current-carrying capacity of the wire AND affects the integrity of the crimp as the wire diameter is reduced.
 
There are thousands, if not millions of crimps out there done with just the tools and supplies that koth recommended, but why not do it right the first time?
 
JMHO, YMMV

^This.

[FrankQC]

Do you want these lights to come on with your headlight, or do you want them on the high beam? You will need to look at a wiring diagram and tap into the appropriate wire.

Hey guys, electronics engineer here.. Trust me, this is a VERY BAD idea to tap into the OEM headlight electrical circuit on the FJ09, especially for a novice... 
The LED headlights (both High and Low) are driven by a DC-DC converter below the headlight assembly. The positive (+) power for that converter is connected to a switched 12V and the negative (-) is tied to the ground. Where it gets complicated is how it is controlled... you probably realized that the headlights won't turn on unless you start the motor. That happens because it't the ECU that sends this signal to the LED controller.
 
Once the motor starts, the ECU output a tiny negative (-) control signal to one of its output. (That is not a strong relay output, it's a sensitive "open collector" transistor output). That signal is split between the Low beam input of the DC-DC converter and the High beam handlebar switch. The output of that switch then goes to the High beam input of the DC-DC converter.
 
There is no easy way to just "tap" into that system and control something else. Also, it is not safe for the ECU to install a relay on the negative (-) control High and Low signal. 1- We don't know how strong is the open collector ECU output for that (even for a relay coil) and 2- When power is removed from a relay coil, there's a phenomena called "extra current" that back-feeds a very large amount of voltage (for a very short duration) back to its source, in this case the ECU.
 
What happens when a tiny output collector sees a high voltage glitch like this ? That transistor inside the ECU blows off and that output dies (Don't ask me how I know...). I already did that on many many other bikes and it always worked, but the FJ ECU just didn't liked it that time.. The only way to protect against this would be to put a reverse diode (freewheeling / flyback) on the relay coil to "eat" that extra current before it reaches the ECU, which I wasn't smart enough to do in the first place.. But again, even with that protection, the ECU output may not be strong enough to drive a 30A inductive relay coil, so I would discard that option and leave the OEM wiring alone.
 
Long story short, if you want to add accessories to your bike, install separate wires / fuses / relays / switches directly to the battery.... If you want switched power, then add a relay on a switched AUX connector to switch your accessories. These AUX switched outputs are safe because they are fed directly by the key.
 
 

[koth442]

Hey guys, electronics engineer here.. Trust me, this is a VERY BAD idea to tap into the OEM headlight electrical circuit on the FJ09, especially for a novice... 
The LED headlights (both High and Low) are driven by a DC-DC converter below the headlight assembly. The positive (+) power for that converter is connected to a switched 12V and the negative (-) is tied to the ground. Where it gets complicated is how it is controlled... you probably realized that the headlights won't turn on unless you start the motor. That happens because it't the ECU that sends this signal to the LED controller.
 
Once the motor starts, the ECU output a tiny negative (-) control signal to one of its output. (That is not a strong relay output, it's a sensitive "open collector" transistor output). That signal is split between the Low beam input of the DC-DC converter and the High beam handlebar switch. The output of that switch then goes to the High beam input of the DC-DC converter.
 
There is no easy way to just "tap" into that system and control something else. Also, it is not safe for the ECU to install a relay on the negative (-) control High and Low signal. 1- We don't know how strong is the open collector ECU output for that (even for a relay coil) and 2- When power is removed from a relay coil, there's a phenomena called "extra current" that back-feeds a very large amount of voltage (for a very short duration) back to its source, in this case the ECU.
 
What happens when a tiny output collector sees a high voltage glitch like this ? That transistor inside the ECU blows off and that output dies (Don't ask me how I know...). I already did that on many many other bikes and it always worked, but the FJ ECU just didn't liked it that time.. The only way to protect against this would be to put a reverse diode (freewheeling / flyback) on the relay coil to "eat" that extra current before it reaches the ECU, which I wasn't smart enough to do in the first place.. But again, even with that protection, the ECU output may not be strong enough to drive a 30A inductive relay coil, so I would discard that option and leave the OEM wiring alone.
 
Long story short, if you want to add accessories to your bike, install separate wires / fuses / relays / switches directly to the battery.... If you want switched power, then add a relay on a switched AUX connector to switch your accessories. These AUX switched outputs are safe because they are fed directly by the key.
 

I haven't been inside the FJ electronics at all so I'm trying to follow you conceptually.
 
1. It sounds like you tried to wire up extra lights on the FJ and damaged the ECU? If so, how exactly did you do it?
 
2. Why do the headlights have their own DC-DC converter? Do they not operate at 12V? Have different current requirements?
 
 
 

[thetruck454]

Hey guys, electronics engineer here.. Trust me, this is a VERY BAD idea to tap into the OEM headlight electrical circuit on the FJ09, especially for a novice... 
The LED headlights (both High and Low) are driven by a DC-DC converter below the headlight assembly. The positive (+) power for that converter is connected to a switched 12V and the negative (-) is tied to the ground. Where it gets complicated is how it is controlled... you probably realized that the headlights won't turn on unless you start the motor. That happens because it't the ECU that sends this signal to the LED controller.
 
Once the motor starts, the ECU output a tiny negative (-) control signal to one of its output. (That is not a strong relay output, it's a sensitive "open collector" transistor output). That signal is split between the Low beam input of the DC-DC converter and the High beam handlebar switch. The output of that switch then goes to the High beam input of the DC-DC converter.
 
There is no easy way to just "tap" into that system and control something else. Also, it is not safe for the ECU to install a relay on the negative (-) control High and Low signal. 1- We don't know how strong is the open collector ECU output for that (even for a relay coil) and 2- When power is removed from a relay coil, there's a phenomena called "extra current" that back-feeds a very large amount of voltage (for a very short duration) back to its source, in this case the ECU.
 
What happens when a tiny output collector sees a high voltage glitch like this ? That transistor inside the ECU blows off and that output dies (Don't ask me how I know...). I already did that on many many other bikes and it always worked, but the FJ ECU just didn't liked it that time.. The only way to protect against this would be to put a reverse diode (freewheeling / flyback) on the relay coil to "eat" that extra current before it reaches the ECU, which I wasn't smart enough to do in the first place.. But again, even with that protection, the ECU output may not be strong enough to drive a 30A inductive relay coil, so I would discard that option and leave the OEM wiring alone.
 
Long story short, if you want to add accessories to your bike, install separate wires / fuses / relays / switches directly to the battery.... If you want switched power, then add a relay on a switched AUX connector to switch your accessories. These AUX switched outputs are safe because they are fed directly by the key.
 

I haven't been inside the FJ electronics at all so I'm trying to follow you conceptually. 
1. It sounds like you tried to wire up extra lights on the FJ and damaged the ECU? If so, how exactly did you do it?
 
2. Why do the headlights have their own DC-DC converter? Do they not operate at 12V? Have different current requirements?
 
 

 
 
Mechanical Engineer here so take my electrical advise with a grain of salt, but when I was was probing around with my multi-meter I found the led's run on over 20 volts after the converter. I decided to stay away from taping into the lights after that. I also would suggest adding a separate accessory relay circuit.

[FrankQC]

I haven't been inside the FJ electronics at all so I'm trying to follow you conceptually. 
1. It sounds like you tried to wire up extra lights on the FJ and damaged the ECU? If so, how exactly did you do it?
 
2. Why do the headlights have their own DC-DC converter? Do they not operate at 12V? Have different current requirements?
 

I've been in electronics all my life and managed to do a stupid mistake on the FJ so that why felt the need to chime in  
 
To answer your questions:
 
 
1- Yes... I ALWAYS use relays to feed additional loads on cars and bikes to prevent damaging OEM stuff (switches, wiring, ....) In that case, I wired up a traditional 30A relay for this purpose. The positive (+) side of the coil to a switched 12V output (through a handlebar switch) and the negative (-) side of the coil to the headlight (-) trigger (Y/B) wire. 12V constant feed directly from the battery. That way, my added lights would follow the OEM headlights and not power up until the bike is started. It worked for about 5-6 cycles until the relay coil extra current blew the ECU output. When that happened, the ECU Y/B wire wasn't giving its (-) logic anymore once the bike was running, so no more headlights. I had to disconnect the Y/B wire from the ECU and short it to ground to get everything back. No big deal but now, the headlights turns on as soon as I turn the key instead of waiting for the motor to run.
 
 
2- If you are into electronics, you probably already know that high power LEDs are very sensitive devices in regards to voltage and current. LEDs chips MUST be limited to a very precise current value to be effective and prevent early failures. Since E=RI and voltage fluctuations would also affect current, the DC-DC converter is there to analyze current and dynamically adjust its output voltage to match the exact current the LEDs needs. When LEDS heats up, their internal resistance changes, current draw is different, DC-DC converter adjust accordingly, so voltage is irrelevant in the LED world.
 

[koth442]

I've been in electronics all my life and managed to do a stupid mistake on the FJ so that why felt the need to chime in  
 
To answer your questions:
 
 
1- Yes... I ALWAYS use relays to feed additional loads on cars and bikes to prevent damaging OEM stuff (switches, wiring, ....) In that case, I wired up a traditional 30A relay for this purpose. The positive (+) side of the coil to a switched 12V output (through a handlebar switch) and the negative (-) side of the coil to the headlight (-) trigger (Y/B) wire. 12V constant feed directly from the battery. That way, my added lights would follow the OEM headlights and not power up until the bike is started. It worked for about 5-6 cycles until the relay coil extra current blew the ECU output. When that happened, the ECU Y/B wire wasn't giving its (-) logic anymore once the bike was running, so no more headlights. I had to disconnect the Y/B wire from the ECU and short it to ground to get everything back. No big deal but now, the headlights turns on as soon as I turn the key instead of waiting for the motor to run.
 
 
2- If you are into electronics, you probably already know that high power LEDs are very sensitive devices in regards to voltage and current. LEDs chips MUST be limited to a very precise current value to be effective and prevent early failures. Since E=RI and voltage fluctuations would also affect current, the DC-DC converter is there to analyze current and dynamically adjust its output voltage to match the exact current the LEDs needs. When LEDS heats up, their internal resistance changes, current draw is different, DC-DC converter adjust accordingly, so voltage is irrelevant in the LED world.

Thank you for sharing your mishap. It sounds like the DC-DC converter is a CCPSU? 
 
 
You have an interesting point I hadn't really considered. The LED lights would not work well with other lights in parallel as the current would drop off in both sets of lights.