Shim brand recommendations - or more importantly - what to avoid.

[dazzler24]

Yamaha, Pro-X, Hot Cams, others.

I visited my Yamaha dealer today to ask if I could pillage their supply, for a price of course, when I'm up to do my valve lash.  I wanted to be sure that something was available to minimise down time once I know my needs and didn't want to go to the expense of buying an entire kit for the job if possible.

They came out with a couple of boxes of Hot Cam shims which they use.  I thought I'd read somewhere in here that they were less than stella?

Any comments on these or recommendations of others that are worthy?

TIA for any suggestions.

[skipperT]

I don’t know of any issues with shim quality. By all means, use theirs if they are willing to sell/trade them with you.
The only disadvantage you may run into is that the factory uses very precise shim sizes. For example, 1.82, 1.84, 1.85, 1.86. 1.88mm. When you calculate what size shim you need to put you back into spec, you may need to round up or down in size. Typically 1.75, 1.80, 1.85mm etc. The Hot cams shims aren’t available in smaller increments so if you want to be exact you’ll need to order the shims individually. 
 

HTH,

-Skip

[2linby]

Pro-X is what I used. Amazon was the best to find them. Although you will have to "dig" through to find the size that will work within your range. I purchased 1.70mm and 1.75mm sizes with 5 each per bag at about $13.00 a bag. Compared with Yamaha at about $12.00 to $25. (depending on the size) each!  Sizes are printed on each shim.

https://tinyurl.com/2rv98m2x

 

[piotrek]

+1 for Pro-X. The shims come in .025 increments, which means it's easier to get close to where you want to be.

Edited March 14, 2022 by piotrek

[2and3cylinders]

The most important step is to measure the thickness of the existing shim being replaced BEFORE you buy additional shims.  The next most critical task is when you buy shims get one .25+ and a second .50 mm thicker than you calculated are needed because I have found ALL the shims usually run that much thinner than marked.  I get the +.50 mm shim just in case because I've also found that after I turn over the engine a few times after initially resetting lash (and before buttoning everything back up) that .25 mm more is needed because the cams often don't bed-in that much; i.e., +.25 because the shims run "small", + another .25 mm due to the cams seating slightly higher.  Be prepared.  There are exceptions but between Honda, Yamaha, Hot Cam and Prox-X I've found this to be substantially the case.

Yes Pro-X come in .25 mm increments like OEM.  Here in the US to supplement my sets of Hot Cam shims, I buy what I need from Rocky Mountain ATV for $1.95 each; and usually order them when I need other stuff so I get free shipping.

Happy feelings.

[duckie]

In the Ducati Desmo world, it is not uncommon to sand the shims to a thickness you need.

Flat surface, 600 grit sandpaper, and wd40 and get to doing figures 8’s until you get the size you needed.

Desmo motors valves are so much fun.

Edited March 15, 2022 by duckie

[bwringer]

Brand doesn't seem to matter.  I've used Hot Cams, Pro-X and K&L shims on all sorts of bikes.

The only nit I could pick is that on the large shim-over-bucket shims used on vintage bikes, K&L doesn't chamfer the edges like the OEM shims, so they're a little more difficult to pop in and out. This doesn't apply to the wee shim-under-bucket type found in most modern bikes.

And in all my motorcycle valve checks over the years, I've encountered exactly one defective shim, while I was working on my FJ-09. It looked like it had slipped in the surface grinder, so if you looked closely at the tooling marks, they were uneven, and the shim was about .02mm taller than marked on one side.

A few things:

- Get in the habit of verifying your shims with a micrometer. A digital micrometer from Harbor Freight is an absolute screaming bargain at $40 or less, and a great way to get accurate, reliable measurements on shims directly in mm, with no conversions from barleycorns or cubits, and no peering at cryptic markings. Get you one. Digital calipers can help you tell one shim from another, but you really need that last bit of precision and repeatability you get from a micrometer. If you get a cheapie digital, just remove the battery between uses, and keep a spare on hand. And READ the fine instructions...

- Most of the "complete" shim kits are wasted; you get three shims each, but many are sizes you'll never actually use. You can get "refill kits" that have five each of a narrow range of sizes. Two refill kits should do ya for anything you'll find in an FJ-09 (but they can be hard to find...), or if you feel like you might work on more than just your own bike, get a complete kit and augment with the refills in the most common range.

- fleaBay is often the best source for refills. You can get also get packs of five shims in individual sizes to fill in as needed.

- These shims are used in a LOT of Japanese bikes. I work on a lot of bikes, so I have complete kits, augmented with refill kits, for 7.48mm and 9.48mm shims. I also have sets of 29.5mm shims used on vintage Suzukis and others, and 29mm Kawasaki shims used on my KLR650 and vintage Kawasakis.

- No one is quite sure whether the oddball "in-between" sizes used from the factory come from frugality or precision. Probably both. In any case, they can be pretty useful once you've worked on a few bikes and have several on hand. When I did my FJ, I think I found six of these and used four to get clearances just the way I liked.

- I always strive to set clearances at or near the upper limit; clearances always decrease.

- Document your findings and the shims used on a spreadsheet or greasy napkin, and you can anticipate what you might need at the next valve check.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by bwringer

[draco_1967]

1 hour ago, duckie said:

In the Ducati Desmo world, it is not uncommon to sand the shims to a thickness you need.

Flat surface, 600 grit sandpaper, and wd40 and get to doing figures 8’s until you get the size you needed.

Desmo motors valves are so much fun.

I did this on my FJR also. I was able to swap around many of the shims to get the proper clearance, but I needed to sand 3 of them to get the right clearance. 

 

And I second the recommendation for a decent micrometer. Calipers aren't going to be accurate enough. 

[PhotoAl]

Still have the HotCams complete kit I bought when doing my FZ6, it's been used for the FZ6, CBR600RR and (drum roll please) Honda scooter.  Whenever I replace a ship I always put the old shim in the kit.  Also check the thickness before using.  It's a 0.05 increment kit but was fine on the CBR.  Had a few valves to adjust and wound up moving shims around to get the clearances I wanted.  My goal has aways been to get to the middle of the range.  

I've read that some of the cheap kits are not as tough as the better ones but have not experience to verify that.  

[piotrek]

14 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

...when you buy shims get one .25+ and a second .50 mm thicker than you calculated are needed because I have found ALL the shims usually run that much thinner than marked.

All OE shims that came out were bang on as marked to two decimal points (only tool I have). Most Pro-X shims came 0.01 mm on a high side where the third marked digit was a 5. Others were right on. While I have no visibility of the third digit... I call that pretty much as marked.

14 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

Yes Pro-X come in .25 mm increments like OEM.

OEM shims called out in the service manual come in 0.05 mm increments. Pro-X come in 0.025 mm increments.

[Buggy Nate]

Hot cams shims are definitely subpar. I usually pull them out and bin them due to the noticeable indentation from the valve tip. Stock or pro-x would be my choice.

[2and3cylinders]

12 hours ago, piotrek said:

All OE shims that came out were bang on as marked to two decimal points (only tool I have). Most Pro-X shims came 0.01 mm on a high side where the third marked digit was a 5. Others were right on. While I have no visibility of the third digit... I call that pretty much as marked.

OEM shims called out in the service manual come in 0.05 mm increments. Pro-X come in 0.025 mm increments.

My bad, dam decimal points

[2and3cylinders]

7 hours ago, Buggy Nate said:

Hot cams shims are definitely subpar. I usually pull them out and bin them due to the noticeable indentation from the valve tip. Stock or pro-x would be my choice.

I've not seen any such "dimpling'' in 100ks mile use?  And some Pro-X are now made in China too rather than Nipon...

[koth442]

+1 for the Hot Cams kit. Great customer service too. My kit was missing a couple and they promptly mailed me a whole lotta that one size. Which ended up being great because that was the size I needed haha.

[Buggy Nate]

15 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I've not seen any such "dimpling'' in 100ks mile use?  And some Pro-X are now made in China too rather than Nipon...

I’ve changed thousands of shims in 20 odd years and mostly hot cams were the damaged ones excluding grenaded motors from over revving.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Buggy Nate