okey dokey let's talk tires...

[2and3cylinders]

Yikes, sphincter pucker and stained shorts time!

I had a died in the wool Hardly Abelson buddy who kept moding his 88 Evo Springer Softail out.  Every time he'd first ask my opinion but then go ahead anyway.  Also 10s of thousands into that Hog.  When the engine popped big time due to him taking it too far, I went with to pick up a huge, fully chromed Revtech replacement engine with my van, as he drove a Jag at the time, if that tells you something about him being a glutton for punishment.  I forget how many OE tranys and clutches that monster gutted before I found him a good drive train and suspension guy.

Anyway, one day he calls and asks me to meet him another of one his mechanics fleabag shops.  I get there and as he shows me the damage to his swingarm adjacent the axle, he tells me what caused  his rear wheel to also lock up at high speed.  He is a nice guy and did preface that he should have listened when he was going to buy a solid disc rear wheel (no spokes), and I said not too because they were heavy, caught side wind more than an open wheel, and that this  particular wheels belt pulleys attachment to its proprietary hub did not appear to be well engineered IMO (me being his go-to ex-aerospace structural engineer type).  Well apparently the undersized diameter and length flat head screws were not secured with thread sealant (Locktite) and likely under-tensioned, and two backed out enough to  literally start machining away where it impinged on the interior side of the swingarm; hidden from ready view.  He said he heard something and looked but continued to ride it for a week.  Then finally, one of the screws backed out sufficiently to suddenly lock up the hub on the swingarm, and he went into a lurid high speed slide going over train tracks no less.  At least the guy could ride!

I recommended he tell the guy he bought the wheel and hub from and installed it to provide a new spoked, preferably tubeless wheel at no additional cost.  I even wrote him a forensic failure report to show the mechanic and manufacturer.  Of course my buddy had him install a new replacement just like the one that had almost killed him but supposedly with better screws pretensioned with a speacial thread sealant.

Guess what, it happened a second time and he again survived unscathed!

This is the same guy who when on his way to Sturgis let his tail pack slip around and totally lock up the rear wheel; again at speed and again he kept it upright!  On top of that, instead of stopping and getting flat bedded to a shop, he continued on another almost 300 miles to Stugis with the belts and chords already exposed.  Good thing he did take my advice and had put on a Michelin Commander tires before the trip.

Luckiest gut I've ever known.  Me, if I didn't have bad luck...and that's with being super anal retentive and ADD when it comes to bike maintenance.

[dpippin]

Tires are getting very expensive lately
I got 3,940 miles on the OEM Dunlop's on my 2019 Tracer GT
Replaced them with a set of Michelin Road5 tires that surprisingly lasted 4,934 miles although they were totally gone causing a little pucker factor on the last 100 miles.
Replaced them with a set of Michelin Road6 and don't have enough miles on them for a good evaluation
I live in the Appalachian mountains of North Carolina and I'm lucky to get 3,000 miles on a set of tires so the Michelin's have been a good choice so far.
They provide excellent traction in both wet and dry conditions.

Anyone else have information on Michelin Road6,s ?

 

 

 

[PhotoAl]

That's seems like not many miles but guess you wore the sides out.  My current Road 5s did great in the mountains out west but could really tell the wear from just a few hundred miles of spirited riding.  Road 6s will be going on next but haven't seen a lot of info on them yet.  From what I've seen looks like the Road 5s were not a great improvement on the 4s and the 6s are trying to get back to more of an upgrade to the 4s than the 5s were.

[dpippin]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:36 PM, PhotoAl said:

That's seems like not many miles but guess you wore the sides out.  My current Road 5s did great in the mountains out west but could really tell the wear from just a few hundred miles of spirited riding.  Road 6s will be going on next but haven't seen a lot of info on them yet.  From what I've seen looks like the Road 5s were not a great improvement on the 4s and the 6s are trying to get back to more of an upgrade to the 4s than the 5s were.

Here's the Road5's with 4,934 miles on them

Edited May 14, 2022 by dpippin

[kiseliok]

^ that's twisties / mountains wear right there! Well done, sir. We'll be in the area (Hot Springs) next weekend.  

[dpippin]

9 hours ago, kiseliok said:

^ that's twisties / mountains wear right there! Well done, sir. We'll be in the area (Hot Springs) next weekend.  

Lot's of good riding in that area.
If you use a GPS and would like some tracks for the area PM me.

[Mark Trottier]

Wow, i am at at least 11 000 miles and just at the end of my road 5's

 

[texscottyd]

9 minutes ago, Mark Trottier said:

Wow, i am at at least 11 000 miles and just at the end of my road 5's

 

Mine were toast in less than half that many miles.   Weather, road surface, and riding style seem to yield wildly different lifespans from the same tires.  

[Sunde]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:12 AM, Wintersdark said:

The Road 6's (and for that matter Road 5's) are objectively better tires than the T32's, but usually much more expensive.  They're grippier in the wet, and get much better mileage. That said, the difference in the wet is rarely super significant because you just ride more cautiously, and the mileage difference is only really important when compared to $/mile.

If you can get T32's a lot cheaper then they're a very good option.  If they're the same price, though, I'd argue it was simply crazy to not get the Road 6's.  

Lol try being Canadian.  Even cheap T32's here are $460 a set.  

Any evidence to back this up? I'v tried the Road 5's, and the T31/32's.
 My experience has been that milage is good, somewhat equal on both. As far as i know Bridgestones have superior sports performance. Same was concluded in a test by motorrad. The T31/32's seem to have better handeling characteritcs on corner entry when trail braking (most riders dont know how to do this) so probably wont ever notice. But most sport touring rubber will tend to stand you up and run you wide, T32's are the least prone to this according to my experience and test experience. My road 5's were not very confidence inspiring when heavy on the brakes into corners, totally acceptable however. Seems to me that bridgestone has generally nailed their front tires. Same goes for the S22 etc over pirellis sports tires. S22 front is touted as being fantastic. 
 If you value wet performance and cold performance then i'd go with road 5/6
If you value sporty (and totally fine wet/cold) performance and similar milage i'd 100% go for the T32s. Price here in Denmark is roughly similar, although the new Road 6 is the most expensive option.
You can drag knee on both if thats what you are after lol. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Sunde

[peteinpa]

That's what I hate most about bikes, tires wear so fast.  Now they cost even more!🤬

[Wintersdark]

9 hours ago, Sunde said:

Any evidence to back this up? I'v tried the Road 5's, and the T31/32's.
 My experience has been that milage is good, somewhat equal on both. As far as i know Bridgestones have superior sports performance. Same was concluded in a test by motorrad. The T31/32's seem to have better handeling characteritcs on corner entry when trail braking (most riders dont know how to do this) so probably wont ever notice. But most sport touring rubber will tend to stand you up and run you wide, T32's are the least prone to this according to my experience and test experience. My road 5's were not very confidence inspiring when heavy on the brakes into corners, totally acceptable however. Seems to me that bridgestone has generally nailed their front tires. Same goes for the S22 etc over pirellis sports tires. S22 front is touted as being fantastic. 
 If you value wet performance and cold performance then i'd go with road 5/6
If you value sporty (and totally fine wet/cold) performance and similar milage i'd 100% go for the T32s. Price here in Denmark is roughly similar, although the new Road 6 is the most expensive option.
You can drag knee on both if thats what you are after lol. 

The road 6 front is significantly different on corner entry under braking than the road 5 is.  That's the highlight change of the road 6 tires - the front has a new reinforced carcass and is much stiffer, getting rid of that vagueness that plagued the R5 front.

I was used to the road 4/5 front, but I fully respect how people didn't like the feel.  They were absolutely every bit as capable but didn't "talk" as well in aggressive cornering.  I got used to it earlier on (road 4 era, before I got winter tires and needed tires that would function in sub-freezing temps) and it was fine for me, but I totally understand the complaint.

Don't get me started on trail braking.  I personally feel *all* street riders should be taught trail braking as a requirement of getting your license, as it's an objectively safer means of navigating blind corners than "traditional" cornering.  Yeah, it's not always the fastest way through a corner, but fast easy tip in and the ability to react faster to changing circumstances mid corner is pure gold.  But I digress.  To cut off the rant: I trail brake pretty much exclusively in my twisty riding, as it's *all* blind mountain corners. 

Mileage for me wasn't even close.  Not even remotely.  I've got a set of used T32's and Road 5's in my garage right now, the road 5's having a full 5000 miles more on them but being in FAR better condition with more tread remaining but more importantly they held up far better under hard braking and acceleration.  With both run at the same pressures, the T32's wore into pretty bad shark teeth, so while there's still adequate tread depth they're largely unusable at this point.

Mine see pretty aggressive use, they're pulling my 300lb ass at over 200kph down those mountain roads, with very hard braking and acceleration.

Now, I'm not opposed to the idea that that's asking too much of the T32's, but the fact remains that the Michelin Roads could handle it. 

For lower temperatures, the Roads *dominate*.  It's not even close.  That's more niche though it's crucial to me as I'm riding below freezing for half the year.

To each their own, though.  Here there's a pretty sizeable difference in price, and for your dollar and for regular riding, the T32 is an excellent tire and damn good $/mile. It's definitely not *bad* in the cold and wet, perfectly ok, just not close to the Road 6.  I won't talk about the Bridgestone sport rubber as I've never run it. 

Tires are tires, though, and a lot of comparisons are going to be either purely subjective (how they feel) or heavily impacted by individual riding circumstances like temperatures, asphalt types, how they're used, weight of the bike/rider.

So, to each their own.  There's VERY little truly objective comparisons out there (virtually none in my experience) so you've just got your own experiences.

I mean, @betoney loves his T32's.  I think they're fine, and for many people a great deal given how much cheaper they are (North America), but for me they just don't last well enough to be worth the lower price. They grip just as well (at 7c and above), have excellent feedback.  

 

[Sunde]

On 5/17/2022 at 12:42 AM, Wintersdark said:

The road 6 front is significantly different on corner entry under braking than the road 5 is.  That's the highlight change of the road 6 tires - the front has a new reinforced carcass and is much stiffer, getting rid of that vagueness that plagued the R5 front.

I was used to the road 4/5 front, but I fully respect how people didn't like the feel.  They were absolutely every bit as capable but didn't "talk" as well in aggressive cornering.  I got used to it earlier on (road 4 era, before I got winter tires and needed tires that would function in sub-freezing temps) and it was fine for me, but I totally understand the complaint.

Don't get me started on trail braking.  I personally feel *all* street riders should be taught trail braking as a requirement of getting your license, as it's an objectively safer means of navigating blind corners than "traditional" cornering.  Yeah, it's not always the fastest way through a corner, but fast easy tip in and the ability to react faster to changing circumstances mid corner is pure gold.  But I digress.  To cut off the rant: I trail brake pretty much exclusively in my twisty riding, as it's *all* blind mountain corners. 

Mileage for me wasn't even close.  Not even remotely.  I've got a set of used T32's and Road 5's in my garage right now, the road 5's having a full 5000 miles more on them but being in FAR better condition with more tread remaining but more importantly they held up far better under hard braking and acceleration.  With both run at the same pressures, the T32's wore into pretty bad shark teeth, so while there's still adequate tread depth they're largely unusable at this point.

Mine see pretty aggressive use, they're pulling my 300lb ass at over 200kph down those mountain roads, with very hard braking and acceleration.

Now, I'm not opposed to the idea that that's asking too much of the T32's, but the fact remains that the Michelin Roads could handle it. 

For lower temperatures, the Roads *dominate*.  It's not even close.  That's more niche though it's crucial to me as I'm riding below freezing for half the year.

To each their own, though.  Here there's a pretty sizeable difference in price, and for your dollar and for regular riding, the T32 is an excellent tire and damn good $/mile. It's definitely not *bad* in the cold and wet, perfectly ok, just not close to the Road 6.  I won't talk about the Bridgestone sport rubber as I've never run it. 

Tires are tires, though, and a lot of comparisons are going to be either purely subjective (how they feel) or heavily impacted by individual riding circumstances like temperatures, asphalt types, how they're used, weight of the bike/rider.

So, to each their own.  There's VERY little truly objective comparisons out there (virtually none in my experience) so you've just got your own experiences.

I mean, @betoney loves his T32's.  I think they're fine, and for many people a great deal given how much cheaper they are (North America), but for me they just don't last well enough to be worth the lower price. They grip just as well (at 7c and above), have excellent feedback.  

 

Thanks for the excellent reply!
Seems like the Road 6 might be worth a go honestly
i was super pleased with the grip on the Road 5's, i felt like they hooked up better on exit, the T32's despite being fancy xxx compound seems like they dont really flex at all when on the side which does not lead to me feeling super happy hammering the throttle open at lean, i always prioritized the braking however. 
 My riding is 100% not as hard as yours, i simply dont have to roads here sadly so that may be while i get similar milage. 
I think you'v convinced me to try the 6's. If they are as good as the road 5's it wont be a bad tire at all regardless. 

[2and3cylinders]

I'm also a T32 fan.  Mileage on the last 2 sets has been between 7.5 & 8k miles with 70% of it spanning to get to and from the semi - decent roads we loosely refer to as "twisties".  If it was the reverse % then the center tread would last longer than the shoulders, which otherwise have plenty left due to our reality here.

The T32 perform admirably in the twisted and when pushed hard even braking, with no tendency to stand up trailing the binders in.

I've not tested them extensively in the wet but I'm cautious due to our poorly maintained roads with oil, coolant and manure depending on ones local.

The biggest factor is not being able to rationalize paying close to 50% more for French, German and Italian doughnuts, as their bakeries are just not that much better.

And in MotoGP Michelin still has a ways to go to get to where Bridgestone was when they left. 

[Suzukiguy]

I just ordered a set of Shinko Verge X2 for my bike to try. I know they will not be comparable to the major brands as far as mileage, but I do my own tire changes, and for $262 for the set I figured why not???

I run Shinkos' on my vintage bike just because I like new, fresh rubber, as I only ride it about 4K miles per year, and the Shinkos' last that long, giving me new tires every season.

I will be doing some aggressive "following" in about 3 weeks in southern Indiana, and we shall see how they perform on a Tracer.

[PhotoAl]

On 5/16/2022 at 5:42 PM, Wintersdark said:

The road 6 front is significantly different on corner entry under braking than the road 5 is.  That's the highlight change of the road 6 tires - the front has a new reinforced carcass and is much stiffer, getting rid of that vagueness that plagued the R5 front.

I was used to the road 4/5 front, but I fully respect how people didn't like the feel.  They were absolutely every bit as capable but didn't "talk" as well in aggressive cornering.  I got used to it earlier on (road 4 era, before I got winter tires and needed tires that would function in sub-freezing temps) and it was fine for me, but I totally understand the complaint.

Now, I'm not opposed to the idea that that's asking too much of the T32's, but the fact remains that the Michelin Roads could handle it. 

For lower temperatures, the Roads *dominate*.  It's not even close.  That's more niche though it's crucial to me as I'm riding below freezing for half the year.

Thanks for the info.  Since I live in that part of the country where winter is when it gets below freezing occasionally I could use tires like the T32s.  Reason I continue to run the Road 5s (and now 6s) is their low temperature abilities.  Have been getting in a couple of nice trips out west a year - June and September.  When I leave it is hot here but seems like every trip I encounter at least one or two days with cooler temperatures and possibly cold rain.  One time in Northern Utah going over a pass in the rain at 34F, wasn't going fast as mainly trying to stay warm but nice to have tires that I trusted on unfamiliar roads and cold wet conditions.  Last year going over BearTooth Pass it was 39F and I was going to have a bit of cautious fun.  Again want a tire I don't have to worry about getting caught out because it's cold.  I've been running the Pilot Power 5 front with a Road 5 rear.  Went by Cycle Gear and bought a set of Road 6s.  Will mount them up before my next long trip.